Outlets wired backwards

[biggerten]

Most outlets I buy have holes in the back you merely strip and push the conductor in, except the ground (they also have the screw terminals). But the 10AWG thing might preclude that, being so big.

 

[Egon]

Most outlets I buy have holes in the back you merely strip and push the conductor in,

Those are not considered as good a connection as the screwed connections. They may not be allowed in some places.

 

[Travelover]

Most outlets I buy have holes in the back you merely strip and push the conductor in, except the ground (they also have the screw terminals). But the 10AWG thing might preclude that, being so big.

I made the mistake of using those push in connectors and ended up with intermittently dead circuits. Ended up taking them back out and using screw terminals for the connection.

 

[kthompson]

OK I only read the first three pages so this may have been mentioned past there...other than don't think 10 gauge wire will fit in the push in outlets have one thought...if you are 100% sure all outlets are wired back wards on a circuit you can reverse the wires in the breaker box and have the electricity running correct. You will still have the colors back wards and not a suggestion to leave it like this but would get your circuits safe for you to have time to change each outlet.

 

[ray66v]

I made the mistake of using those push in connectors and ended up with intermittently dead circuits. Ended up taking them back out and using screw terminals for the connection.

Today's receptacles, and switches, look like the old fire starter, "push in" type. But, they are actually insert, and screw down to lock. This new system is fine because the wire is secured by the screw. It also makes changing things later, very easy.

 

[Travelover]

OK I only read the first three pages so this may have been mentioned past there...other than don't think 10 gauge wire will fit in the push in outlets have one thought...if you are 100% sure all outlets are wired back wards on a circuit you can reverse the wires in the breaker box and have the electricity running correct. You will still have the colors back wards and not a suggestion to leave it like this but would get your circuits safe for you to have time to change each outlet.

I actually suggested this, then deleted my post after thinking about it for awhile. Even if you remarked the wires in the breaker box, it could end up causing all kinds issues for a subsequent owner or even an electrician called in while you were incapacitated.

 

[Travelover]

Today's receptacles, and switches, look like the old fire starter, "push in" type. But, they are actually insert, and screw down to lock. This new system is fine because the wire is secured by the screw. It also makes changing things later, very easy.

Thanks for the update. It has been a while since I did any serious wiring.

 

[MossRoad]

I have been using these push in connectors from Ideal for several years. I really like them over wire nuts. However, they are only big enough for 12 gauge and smaller, so the OP with 10 won't be able to use them.

IDEAL INDUSTRIES, INC. - In-Sure Push-In Wire Connectors

They are nice because you only have to strip the wire, they are clear on the back so you can see that the wire is inserted properly, they lock the wire in place and there is no twisting of the wire, so it is MUCH easier on your hands. They come in 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 and 8 hole configurations. They also come in small, medium and large packs, so you can buy just a few to try them out or buy a bunch for a large project. If you haven't tried them, give them a try on your next small job and see how you like them.

 

[kenstrac]

I know I did a quick read thru, but I didn't see any glaring bad information. Would you care to point it out?

The solution, as many have stated, is to fix the wiring.
Can be a PITA but you will sleep better. In normal cases, it won't hurt anything, but there are some good examples of the abnormal cases that do happen.

For the person concerned about an AC unit plugged into a 15A rated receptacle, if the AC unit needs 20A receptacle, it should have a 20A plug on it, so it won't fit in a 15A receptacle.
And never assume a light fixture is off just because you turned the switch off.

Many older houses built before the 70's don't have grounded outlets, although they might still have a ground wire in the box.
Watch out for the houses built in the 70's with aluminum wiring. I was helping someone once, and the outlets had been replaced with newer ones that were rated copper wire only, and the whole house was aluminum wire.

I read your reply But my concern was 13.5 Amp A/C that pulls 40.5 amps on start up on a cheap 15 amp outlet on a #12 wire and 20 amp breaker.
So this morning I went to Lowe's and checked around there are appliances that pull 13-14 amps with 15 amp plugs,I went to the tool dept Dewalt planer 15 amp rating 15 amp plug.I then went over to the mig welders 19.5 amp 15 amp plug, so according to you this is ok,Not for me you do what you want I will do it the right way #12 wire 20 amp plug 20 amp breaker!
With the cheapness and poor quality of all of electrical products that are sold today I'll stay with the highest rating possible.

 

[MossRoad]

I tend to agree that putting a 15AMP rated outlet on 12GA wire and a 20AMP breaker is asking for trouble. The outlet could fail before the breaker pops and that defeats the purpose, doesn't it?

 

[tallyho8]

I have been using these push in connectors from Ideal for several years. I really like them over wire nuts. However, they are only big enough for 12 gauge and smaller, so the OP with 10 won't be able to use them.

IDEAL INDUSTRIES, INC. - In-Sure Push-In Wire Connectors

The #39 handles 10 gauge wire.

 

[ray66v]

MossRoad:

20 amp receptacles are a good idea because they offer better quality connection. But, I have never been required to use a 20 amp receptacle, on a 20 amp circuit, unless it was dedicated for a particular high current device.

A 15 amp receptacle will handle the current in the event of a short, because it does not have to do so for very long.

Even a flimsy lamp cord can withstand 20 amps+ long enough to trip a properly working circuit breaker.

 

[buckeyefarmer]

I read your reply But my concern was 13.5 Amp A/C that pulls 40.5 amps on start up on a cheap 15 amp outlet on a #12 wire and 20 amp breaker.
So this morning I went to Lowe's and checked around there are appliances that pull 13-14 amps with 15 amp plugs,I went to the tool dept Dewalt planer 15 amp rating 15 amp plug.I then went over to the mig welders 19.5 amp 15 amp plug, so according to you this is ok,Not for me you do what you want I will do it the right way #12 wire 20 amp plug 20 amp breaker!
With the cheapness and poor quality of all of electrical products that are sold today I'll stay with the highest rating possible.

My only concern was the comment that there were a lot of glaring mistakes thru out the posts. I didn't see any and was wondering what I missed. Going with all 20A outlets on 12 GA wire is good, but using 15A outlets on 12 GA wire as permitted by code is still not a glaring mistake. Just for fun I went and fired up my Makita planer, rated 12A on the nameplate, plugged into a kill A watt meter plugged into a 15A receptacle on a 20A circuit. On startup I saw it reach 11.5A, then ran at 5A. I didn't have a breakout box to put my amp probe on to record the actual startup current, but all motors start at a high initial current for a few cycles, way above 20A.
concerning bending the wire to put under the screw, the end of most wire strippers have a handy way to grab the wire and bend it over, making it pretty easy.
Thanks for the link on the push in wire connectors from Ideal.

 

[aczlan]

Whenever possible (especially when wiring a 20 amp circuit) I put the wires together in a wire nut (ie: if I have a outlet in the middle of a 20 amp circuit I have Power in, Power out and Power to the outlet together in a wire nut, same for Neutral and Ground (each in their own wire nuts))

The reason for this: if you have 3 6 amp devices plugged into 15 amp outlets and running on a 20 amp circuit you are ok on the individual plugs but if you use the outlet to run the circuit through EACH outlet has to handle the whole 18 amps instead of just having to handle the load on that outlet.

Aaron Z

 

[ray66v]

Whenever possible (especially when wiring a 20 amp circuit) I put the wires together in a wire nut (ie: if I have a outlet in the middle of a 20 amp circuit I have Power in, Power out and Power to the outlet together in a wire nut, same for Neutral and Ground (each in their own wire nuts))

The reason for this: if you have 3 6 amp devices plugged into 15 amp outlets and running on a 20 amp circuit you are ok on the individual plugs but if you use the outlet to run the circuit through EACH outlet has to handle the whole 18 amps instead of just having to handle the load on that outlet.

Aaron Z

That way of doing things was a very good idea back when the receptacles had simple push in connections.

Today, the screw terminals, and bridge connectors, on the 15 amp receptacles can handle the 20 amp load. And would in my opinion, provide a better connection than a wire nut.

The 15 amp limitation is on the female plug in the receptacle.

If the feed through restricted the current flow, then 15 amp receptacles would never be allowed to be used on 20 amp circuits, because the bridge connector would become a fuse.

 

[JB4310]

I passed an inspection by the state and a pre inspection by a professional electrician. I'm not an electrician but specifically asked this question since I always wire with 12 gauge.

I see what you are saying, you can always suck more than 15 amps through a 15 amp outlet with the proper splitters and power strips. The outlet could be asked to pass more than 15 amps.

I think you folks are right. It is more logical to match the outlet rating to the CB rating.

Highbeam, I was wrong, just spent an hour reading about this.
The 15 amp and 20 amp receptacles have the exact same capacity so don't feel your system might of benefited from using the 20 amp outlets.
The only difference is in the slot configuration, the reason for the 2 different ratings is that that the 20 amp outlets can not be used on 15 amp circuits, so if you see a 20 amp outlet you can be assured it's a twenty amp circuit and you could plug that specific 20 amp cord in. (been around for a while and have yet to see one of those 20 amp male cord ends)

I learned that as long as there is more than one receptacle on the 20 amp circuit it's ok to use 15 amp outlet, so a typical duplex receptacle would be considered more than one and ok

The exception here is that it appears that kitchens, baths and laundry areas would still need the 20 amp slot configuration, not 100% sure about this though.

That way of doing things was a very good idea back when the receptacles had simple push in connections.

Today, the screw terminals, and bridge connectors, on the 15 amp receptacles can handle the 20 amp load. And would in my opinion, provide a better connection than a wire nut.

The 15 amp limitation is on the female plug in the receptacle.

If the feed through restricted the current flow, then 15 amp receptacles would never be allowed to be used on 20 amp circuits, because the bridge connector would become a fuse.

What your saying about the 15 amp limit being just related to neutral slot configuration, is what I just spent an hour learning about and finally makes sense to me.
Could never figure out why on the 15 amp GFI's that it said on them that they were rated for 20 amp feed-thru or load. Now I know it has nothing to do with the devices capacity as they are exactly the same, but more about protecting a 15 amp circuit from plugging in a 20 amp cord.

As far as your other point about using a regular duplex receptacle for feed through, I'm still learning about that but appears that is is allowed as long as its only 110 volt and not multi circuits in the box?

Though it's allowed I don't think it's a "better" connection than a wire-nut/pigtail since there is apparently more resistance through the receptacle. It's just a tiny amount but could become an issue if gone through 10 outlets like that. I'm still researching this.

Back to the 20 vs 15A outlets and GFI's now I Know the 20's just cost more and offer zero added capacity, especially the GFI's, those can be considerably more $$$
So the bottom line is, on 15 amp circuits you must use 15 amp outlets but on 20 amp circuits you can use 15 or 20 amp outlets

JB.

 

[ray66v]

Though it's allowed I don't think it's a "better" connection than a wire-nut/pigtail since there is apparently more resistance through the receptacle. It's just a tiny amount but could become an issue if gone through 10 outlets like that. I'm still researching this.
JB.

No the resistance is not an issue. If it was there would be limitations.

A properly sized, and installed, wire nut is a good acceptable connection.

Wire nuts can also easily be improperly installed, and then wires can loosen from moving them during installation and or repairs. This problem is compounded when your using a wire nut to connect more than two wires.

Nothing is going to beat a good tight screw connection, because it is not subject to these problems. No matter how much you move those wires, or what someone uses to cram them into an undersized box, they stay tight.

 

[JB4310]

Nothing is going to beat a good tight screw connection, because it is not subject to these problems. No matter how much you move those wires, or what someone uses to cram them into an undersized box, they stay tight.

I have seen loose wires under screws. When renovating and upgrading my house I found several loose screws on outlets.
Not sure how a screw would come loose in an environment where nothing is moving, but this was after 65 years though.

These old boxes had splices in them, the old soldered and taped (western union?)


JB.

 

[Egon]

[I have seen loose wires under screws.

Thermal expansion/contraction. The aluminum wires were bad for this.

 

[Willl]

I have seen loose wires under screws.

Same here, 'bout 6-8 months ago wifey said the light switch in her room/shop was making buzzing type noises.

Pop it out and before I retightened I turned it on just for grins. Neat little teeny-tiny arc show going on.