Packing/sealing a gravel road after 'resurfacing' / land plane

[paulsharvey]

Also on pipe drainage, you want your cross drains to extend Beyond the shoulders, to the swale area. People tend to buy to short of pipes. 20 ft is pretty narrow for a 12 ft drive, 24 ft is better.

Pipes are sized for around a 25 year storm, and not for daily rains. If a pipe is half full on an afternoon rain, it's way undersized.

 

[paulsharvey]

If the road is built right, and drainage right, and you Still have issues, likely you need to look at a chip seal, concrete, or asphalt surface.

Geotextiles are generally a cop out, and don't actually fix the main problem. That doesn't mean they are bad, or don't have a place. Some places, true muck removal can go down 20/40/80 ft, and that's not economically viable. So, in those cases, a geotextile, and a graded rock, can be used to bridge over the unsuitable material. The catch is, it will still settle over the years, as that muck decays and subsides. In that case, you add more material on top as needed.

 

[paulsharvey]

Has the OP been back since the top of the thread? Pictures of both the wash outs, general topography, as well as the existing material, and the material he is importing would be helpful.

In my mind, I think likely, the trouble areas is on the side of a hill, and he doesn't have a hillside swale, and then cross drains to dump that hillside water to the embankment side? Or, he doesn't have the hillside swale, and he's getting seepage, and basically his road bed is staying loose and saturated, and he thinks it's a compaction issue?

Always remember, you can't compact dust or mud. Moisture levels are key in getting compaction. If it just is a wet season, and the drainage is on point, you can place the material wet, compact to the best of your ability, and Stay the Heck off it, as it drys, and it will get hard.

 

[Dadnatron]

I’m wondering if the OP’s gravel movement issues are due to having uniformly sized gravel with no fines mixed in? It’s impossible to keep that kind of gravel in place.

I just purchased this property, and the road has been ignored. It looks like an original gravel on topsoil road put in 50 or more years ago. Probably had some gravel added a time or two over the years. The road itself currently is LOWER than the adjacent grass. That is why I am rebuilding it. I'm going to get it cut and smoothed, then I'd like to pack it. Then fabric followed by 2s then crusher run with fines. I'll probably be adding roughly 6-8" when its all complete.

But I've always worked my roads with a land plane and always tried to redress and pack them immediately. The gravel has always stayed in place better as well as wash boarded far less, with a packed rather than 'loose' surface.

I'm not certain on the grade of the North face, but its 'enough' that a smooth roller would be hard pressed making it up the hill alone. I'm looking for either a tow pneumatic or a tow vibratory type of implement. And I think I'd rather go with a pneumatic packer with a box into which I can put a bunch of gravel for weight. I just can't find anything at all in the Indiana/KY/OH general area. Closest is a 'forest find' in GA, which I'd look at, if it was closer or in better shape for a road trip.

I've built several farm roads in the area on my previous farm. One road, I had a scraper, took it down to clay, repacked it with a LARGE padded vibratory, because they one they were supposed to send me broke down, so they sent me a monster. Worked great, and that road will be there forever. However it was a lot of work and for a 'farm road' it was overkill. I also put in a couple 'scrape the topsoil then fabric and CSB' and followed that about a year later with DGA. Those roads were equal to the dug out road in functionality for me over the years. I'm a believer in fabric, as I don't know what its currently set on, and I know there are some 'soft spots'. Copout or not, its an easy fix on everything I've used it for and its better than fighting the road in the future, IMO.

 

[paulsharvey]

I just purchased this property, and the road has been ignored. It looks like an original gravel on topsoil road put in 50 or more years ago. Probably had some gravel added a time or two over the years. The road itself currently is LOWER than the adjacent grass. That is why I am rebuilding it. I'm going to get it cut and smoothed, then I'd like to pack it. Then fabric followed by 2s then crusher run with fines. I'll probably be adding roughly 6-8" when its all complete.

But I've always worked my roads with a land plane and always tried to redress and pack them immediately. The gravel has always stayed in place better as well as wash boarded far less, with a packed rather than 'loose' surface.

I'm not certain on the grade of the North face, but its 'enough' that a smooth roller would be hard pressed making it up the hill alone. I'm looking for either a tow pneumatic or a tow vibratory type of implement. And I think I'd rather go with a pneumatic packer with a box into which I can put a bunch of gravel for weight. I just can't find anything at all in the Indiana/KY/OH general area. Closest is a 'forest find' in GA, which I'd look at, if it was closer or in better shape for a road trip.

I've built several farm roads in the area on my previous farm. One road, I had a scraper, took it down to clay, repacked it with a LARGE padded vibratory, because they one they were supposed to send me broke down, so they sent me a monster. Worked great, and that road will be there forever. However it was a lot of work and for a 'farm road' it was overkill. I also put in a couple 'scrape the topsoil then fabric and CSB' and followed that about a year later with DGA. Those roads were equal to the dug out road in functionality for me over the years. I'm a believer in fabric, as I don't know what its currently set on, and I know there are some 'soft spots'. Copout or not, its an easy fix on everything I've used it for and its better than fighting the road in the future, IMO.

Ah, that makes a lot of sense. I was under the impression you had a wash out area, that you were ripping and repairing regularly.

Does the 6-8" of new material put the new surface above the adjacent grass areas.

I've never heard of a road base, fabric, road base sandwich. Really, with the 6-8" on top, I dont think "scabbing" will be an issue, so it should work.

 

[jyoutz]

I just purchased this property, and the road has been ignored. It looks like an original gravel on topsoil road put in 50 or more years ago. Probably had some gravel added a time or two over the years. The road itself currently is LOWER than the adjacent grass. That is why I am rebuilding it. I'm going to get it cut and smoothed, then I'd like to pack it. Then fabric followed by 2s then crusher run with fines. I'll probably be adding roughly 6-8" when its all complete.

But I've always worked my roads with a land plane and always tried to redress and pack them immediately. The gravel has always stayed in place better as well as wash boarded far less, with a packed rather than 'loose' surface.

I'm not certain on the grade of the North face, but its 'enough' that a smooth roller would be hard pressed making it up the hill alone. I'm looking for either a tow pneumatic or a tow vibratory type of implement. And I think I'd rather go with a pneumatic packer with a box into which I can put a bunch of gravel for weight. I just can't find anything at all in the Indiana/KY/OH general area. Closest is a 'forest find' in GA, which I'd look at, if it was closer or in better shape for a road trip.

I've built several farm roads in the area on my previous farm. One road, I had a scraper, took it down to clay, repacked it with a LARGE padded vibratory, because they one they were supposed to send me broke down, so they sent me a monster. Worked great, and that road will be there forever. However it was a lot of work and for a 'farm road' it was overkill. I also put in a couple 'scrape the topsoil then fabric and CSB' and followed that about a year later with DGA. Those roads were equal to the dug out road in functionality for me over the years. I'm a believer in fabric, as I don't know what its currently set on, and I know there are some 'soft spots'. Copout or not, its an easy fix on everything I've used it for and its better than fighting the road in the future, IMO.

I think with the fabric, material depth, and crusher fines you’re planning, this will make a good road and probably need packing only once if you have a good mix of gravel and fines. I installed my roads about 6 years ago and had the road contractor pack it with a large motorized roller. The fines set the roadbed and it’s like concrete now. I’ve never repacked it and only grade it a few times a year to pull loose gravel from the ditches and shoulders back onto the road. A well constructed road bed doesn’t need repacking, just occasional refreshing by topping with more gravel.

 

[Dadnatron]

Ah, that makes a lot of sense. I was under the impression you had a wash out area, that you were ripping and repairing regularly.

Does the 6-8" of new material put the new surface above the adjacent grass areas.

I've never heard of a road base, fabric, road base sandwich. Really, with the 6-8" on top, I dont think "scabbing" will be an issue, so it should work.

6-8" should put the grade about 4" above the adjacent grass at the shoulders. The 'grade' part of the road runs straight downhill about 100yds, so I have to have a good crown on it.

 

[jyoutz]

6-8" should put the grade about 4" above the adjacent grass at the shoulders. The 'grade' part of the road runs straight downhill about 100yds, so I have to have a good crown on it.

Also since you have a downhill run, think about building in a rolling dip into the roadbed before placing gravel. This is the key to managing water and materials on a down hill roadbed.

https://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/stelprdb5440699.pdf

Rolling Dip / Water Bar — After Wildfire

afterwildfirenm.org

 

[LouNY]

Those nice fancy rolling dips will work but it would take quite a few of them on a steep driveway and the crest would actually make the grade even steeper. Also they would be hard to maintain without a dozer. A backblade or box blade would have a hard time maintaining them.
A simple water cut is much easier and less expensive to put in.

 

[jyoutz]

Those nice fancy rolling dips will work but it would take quite a few of them on a steep driveway and the crest would actually make the grade even steeper. Also they would be hard to maintain without a dozer. A backblade or box blade would have a hard time maintaining them.
A simple water cut is much easier and less expensive to put in.

We cut them into forest dirt and gravel roads routinely and they last years without maintenance except for surface grading. They don’t make the road steeper because they are gradual dips that you “roll” into and out of over about 100’ length, not water bars that are steep bumps in a short distance. The reason why the dips last is they are cut into the ground before the surface gravel is applied. We maintain these roads with road graders and they have no problem; a box or rear blade on a tractor would not even notice the dip as different than the rest of the flat road surface. See the second video that shows how gradual you can make these, but they still work.