Particulate filter delete

[Snobdds]

I know this is an old thread but a note on the EGR causing overheating.

The new cooling strategies for diesels have added the EGR valve in the loop of inputs to turn on and off the cooling fan. They now see if the EGR valve is open or closed, along with some other factors...to trigger the electronic fans. For example, on the 6.7 powerstrokes, if you delete the EGR, you need to keep the sensor plugged in to the EGR valve to keep the computer from not seeing that signal. The EGR cooler is plugged off and the valve still open's and closes, but no exhaust is flowing through it. The old tuning was deleting the entire EGR signal and was causing some overheating issues. They found it's best to leave the EGR valve and keep the computer sensing the position of the EGR valve rather than eliminating it entirely.

I can't say this about other engines, but the theory is there to transfer to other engine PCM tuning since most of the hardware is the same.

 

[rScotty]

I know this is an old thread but a note on the EGR causing overheating.

The new cooling strategies for diesels have added the EGR valve in the loop of inputs to turn on and off the cooling fan. They now see if the EGR valve is open or closed, along with some other factors...to trigger the electronic fans. For example, on the 6.7 powerstrokes, if you delete the EGR, you need to keep the sensor plugged in to the EGR valve to keep the computer from not seeing that signal. The EGR cooler is plugged off and the valve still open's and closes, but no exhaust is flowing through it. The old tuning was deleting the entire EGR signal and was causing some overheating issues. They found it's best to leave the EGR valve and keep the computer sensing the position of the EGR valve rather than eliminating it entirely.
I can't say this about other engines, but the theory is there to transfer to other engine PCM tuning since most of the hardware is the same.

That's interesting. I wonder if it applies to our 2007 M59 Kubota?

The M59 was heavily advertised by Kubota as being "Interim Tier IV" - which I took to mean that mechanically it was Kubota's proven 150 ci diesel to which a turbo and an EGR system had been added along with some engine re-tuning. But I've never seen anything from Kubota specifying exactly what was changed for Interim Tier IV. I'd love to know.
I'm now experimenting with a toggle that selectively turns the EGR system on & off.

From what you say, I'll also keep an eye on temperature.
Probably have to add a decent temperature gauge to the dash. & a "tee" to the sender. That's what we used to do back in the era of idiot temperature lights.
rScotty

 

[Ortimber]

FWIW- It is my understanding that EGR gases keep combustion temperatures slightly lower than what you'd see if you allowed only fresh air in. I think this is due to the oxygen content of fresh air vs. dirty EGR air.

 

[The Fred]

By lowering combustion temps the formulation of Oxides of Nitrogen (NOX) are decreased.

I do notice when deleting EGR on older VW Diesels that the high combustion temps tend to make small (tiny) cracks develop in the cylinder head chambers, they seem harmless though.

Don't forget that all of the newer Fords use a secondary low temp radiator for the intercooler, might be the reason for the cooling fans to come on under high EGR temps.

 

[rScotty]

I'm wondering if anyone has run across any experiments or references showing which way the engine temperature goes when the EGR is engaged? Does it make a difference if the engine is naturally aspirated or turbo?
rScotty

 

[ericm979]

EGR's purpose is to reduce combustion chamber temperatures. That will happen N/A or turbo.

Exhaust Gas Recirculation
ResearchGate

 

[finn1]

By lowering combustion temps the formulation of Oxides of Nitrogen (NOX) are decreased.

I do notice when deleting EGR on older VW Diesels that the high combustion temps tend to make small (tiny) cracks develop in the cylinder head chambers, they seem harmless though.

Don't forget that all of the newer Fords use a secondary low temp radiator for the intercooler, might be the reason for the cooling fans to come on under high EGR temps.

The principal behind Engr is that it is an inert gas that effectively reduces peak combustion temperatures to a point where NOx production is suppressed.

I am assuming you are referring to cracks in the prechambers of the older IDI VW Diesels. The prechambers normally run at very high temperatures, and are often made of special high temperature Inconel materials. Deleting EGR would further increase peak temperatures of the precups, valve bridge, piston crown, and ring belt, and lead to premature cracking and eventual failure.

 

[finn1]

I'm wondering if anyone has run across any experiments or references showing which way the engine temperature goes when the EGR is engaged? Does it make a difference if the engine is naturally aspirated or turbo?
rScotty

See my other post . Coolant temperature doesn’t tell you much about internal component temperature. It is only a snapshot of cooling system , ie radiator, water pump, etc, performance.

Changing the combustion system, for example by eliminating EGR, increasing boost or fuel rate, or advancing timing will all increase thermal loads and temperatures of internal engine components like pistons, rings, valve bridges, etc.

Engine combust systems don’t just happen. They are the result of literally thousands of hours of advanced combustion, computational fluid dynamics and thermodynamic modeling, followed up by thousands of hours of dynamometer and field test development.

 

[rScotty]

The principal behind Engr is that it is an inert gas that effectively reduces peak combustion temperatures to a point where NOx production is suppressed.

I am assuming you are referring to cracks in the prechambers of the older IDI VW Diesels. The prechambers normally run at very high temperatures, and are often made of special high temperature Inconel materials. Deleting EGR would further increase peak temperatures of the precups, valve bridge, piston crown, and ring belt, and lead to premature cracking and eventual failure.

I have heard that said that EGR reduces NOx production - I'm not up on my diesel technology to know what the advantage is in that reduction. Do you? Can you explain?

For some time I have been playing with my M59 to try to reduce the sooty exhaust.
Different fuels, additives, RPMs, blocking radiator, an on/off valve installed in the line to the EGR pressure actuated valve. All because this Interim Tier IV engine does make more soot than any diesel in my experience. Even when fully warmed up - temperature is often at the bottom of the normal range unless really working hard - it always puts out a dense black cloud when comes upon a load or is revved up.... any time the RPM is changed. Of course any diesel will smoke when cold and expecially when starting up, but this is the first one I've had that does it all so much and so often.

We've had it since new. The motor runs smoothly throughout the RPM range, and it starts immediately in the the coldest weather. Regular maintenance; fuel is normal passenger car fuel. Last year I burned several tanks of 10% bio-diesel. Bio-diesel is difficult to find locally, but one little store has it from time to time. It didn't make a noticible difference.

I like the tractor, but it earns it's nickname - "Stinky".....A quality made all the more noticible by the down-turned exhaust.
We live in a sparsely populated valley at 7000 feet elevation. Our air quality is usually pretty good, and reducing this tractor's sooty exhaust would sure make it nicer to operate.
rScotty

 

[Snobdds]

I have heard that said that EGR reduces NOx production - I'm not up on my diesel technology to know what the advantage is in that reduction. Do you? Can you explain?

For some time I have been playing with my M59 to try to reduce the sooty exhaust.
Different fuels, additives, RPMs, blocking radiator, an on/off valve installed in the line to the EGR pressure actuated valve. All because this Interim Tier IV engine does make more soot than any diesel in my experience. Even when fully warmed up - temperature is often at the bottom of the normal range unless really working hard - it always puts out a dense black cloud when comes upon a load or is revved up.... any time the RPM is changed. Of course any diesel will smoke when cold and expecially when starting up, but this is the first one I've had that does it all so much and so often.

We've had it since new. The motor runs smoothly throughout the RPM range, and it starts immediately in the the coldest weather. Regular maintenance; fuel is normal passenger car fuel. Last year I burned several tanks of 10% bio-diesel. Bio-diesel is difficult to find locally, but one little store has it from time to time. It didn't make a noticible difference.

I like the tractor, but it earns it's nickname - "Stinky".....A quality made all the more noticible by the down-turned exhaust.
We live in a sparsely populated valley at 7000 feet elevation. Our air quality is usually pretty good, and reducing this tractor's sooty exhaust would sure make it nicer to operate.
rScotty

you have the same problem I do...elevation. there is not enough oxygen molecules in the air at that altitude to keep the motor at stoically optimal fuel air ratios. turbos do help with the air problem, but the root cause is too much fuel.

Turn down the fuel a little bit.