Pickups the new Luxury Car?

   / Pickups the new Luxury Car? #121  
??? Not sure what you mean, Zerk. When I got my 2014, the purchase price was $33k, and the residual was $23k with a 25,000 km (15,625 mile) yearly "mileage allowance". And, since I visited several dealers, I knew that the $33k was the same price, lease or buy. So, I am basically paying $5,000 per year for the truck. (Note to my American TBN friends: these prices are all on Canadian dollars, and as of today, you have to multiply by 3/4 to translate into US dollars.)

So, I could have bought the truck outright, at the beginning, but why do that when (a) the interest costs factored into the lease are essentially NIL (mine were 0.49%), (b) you pay no sales taxes of any kind on the residual value if you do not buy the truck at lease-end - which in Ontario saves 13% x $23k = some $2990, and (c) - the big one - youget to decide at lease end if you still want that truck, or something else.
 
   / Pickups the new Luxury Car?
  • Thread Starter
#122  
13% tax is steep... is it just vehicles or on all goods?

I guess the Lincoln Blackwood was Ford's idea of true Luxury... the original was sold just in 2002 in the United States if I remember and then redesigned for another short run.

Lincoln Mark LT - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Then there is also the Cadillac Escalade EXT
 
   / Pickups the new Luxury Car? #123  
13% tax is steep... is it just vehicles or on all goods? I guess the Lincoln Blackwood was Ford's idea of true Luxury... the original was sold just in 2002 in the United States if I remember and then redesigned for another short run. Lincoln Mark LT - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Then there is also the Cadillac Escalade EXT

It's horrible and it pisses me off all the time, especially when you buy something expensive, like a tractor. It is on most things, and it drives me crazy, because I grew up in Calgary, Alberta, and back then there was no sales tax of any kind on anything.
 
   / Pickups the new Luxury Car? #124  
This has been an interesting discussion of the pros and cons of leasing versus buying vehicles. Isn't it a bit similar to renting an apartment versus buying a house? Renters build no equity, can't deduct interest on their income tax return, etc. but they also have no repairs and maintenance costs. Obviously, most of our members here, including me, believe that owning a home is better than renting, but when I see all these huge new apartment buildings being built, and filled up as soon as they're built. there has to be a lot of people who prefer renting.

To each his own, I reckon.
 
   / Pickups the new Luxury Car?
  • Thread Starter
#125  
It can also depend on where one is in life... settled or still moving around.

My Navy Commander friend bought a home every time he was stationed somewhere... his wife's idea... they actually made money each time and always sold to a new person being transferred.

Another friend works for a large company... they only lease vehicles... their bean counters decided it was advantageous for them do do so... I think all Ford vehicles... Pickups to Lincolns with a lot of small Vans and Escapes for service.
 
   / Pickups the new Luxury Car? #126  
It's kind of like that, but I would also argue that a home is an appreciating asset (over the long-term) and a vehicle is a rapidly depreciating asset. So, I think buying vs renting a home is an easier decision, albeit more expensive than the lease vs buying of a vehicle. If you buy a $50,000 vehicle it's worth $25,000 the moment you drive it off the lot. And, from there on out you are trying to get out from underwater. If you are like most people that keep their vehicles for 3-5 years, then you really don't ever have any equity in the vehicle and for the most part have negative equity. Obviously, the shorter the loan term or the more you put down, the quicker you will be above water. If you are a person that keeps their vehicles until just before the wheels fall off, then buying is decision for you, but along with that decision anything that happens after the initial warranty period, is your problem. If the engine blows or transmission craps the bed, or it needs new brakes and rotors, that's your expense.

The cost of a lease is determined by the difference between the sales price and the residual (usually set by the finance company and not really negotiable) with a small percentage going to the finance company (1% or so). So, if you buy a $45,000 truck with the residual set at $27,000 and a 36 month term, your payment will be right around $500 per month before taxes. Basically, you are paying the depreciation on the vehicle over that term.

Now, at the end of that 36 month term, if the market value of the truck is $30,000 and the residual is $27,000, you could theoretically (taxes and fees not included) buy the truck and pocket $3,000 on a sale to a private party. If the market value is $25,000 after 3 years, you can walk away from it by turning it back into the dealer and do whatever you want, as long as you stayed under the agreed upon mileage and don't have significant cosmetic damage to the vehicle. Or, if you beat the crap out of the truck by towing at its max capacity for the last 3 years, you can turn it in and negotiate for a new one.

When you purchase a vehicle you pay tax on the purchase price. So, in New Jersey, I'd pay 7% of $50,000 or $3,500 to the state. If I lease a vehicle, I only pay tax on the portion I use so 7% or $1,260.00 ($45k - $27k)

It's definitely a shift in mindset. With the cost of new vehicles today, in order to ever have any kind of equity in them, you have to keep them for a very long time. With that comes risks. Vehicles aren't getting easier or less expensive to maintain. For me, I look at a vehicle as a necessary expense. It's like the electric bill or cable tv / internet bill. Sure, I could finance a vehicle over 5 or 6 years and be done with payments after 6 years and have a few thousand in equity. But, realistically, am I really going to keep it the 10+ years and risk being saddled with a huge expense if the engine were to go or transmission were to fail?

For complete transparency, I currently lease 2 vehicles. I lease a 2015 Chevrolet Silverado LT Z71 with a sales price of $44,000 and $27,000 residual and a 2015 Chevrolet Cruz LT for the misses with a $19,000 sales price and $13,000 residual. Both have 12k mile caps. Before leasing a had a 1999 Jeep Wrangler that I put 165k miles on that was bought new and I sold for $1k to a family member that has to now replace the rear at a cost of $2500. When I got rid of the Jeep, I purchased a 2004 Jaguar xj8 used with 54k miles on it and drove it for 45k miles and 3 years until the extended warranty was up. I traded that in on the Silverado that I'm now leasing.

This has been an interesting discussion of the pros and cons of leasing versus buying vehicles. Isn't it a bit similar to renting an apartment versus buying a house? Renters build no equity, can't deduct interest on their income tax return, etc. but they also have no repairs and maintenance costs. Obviously, most of our members here, including me, believe that owning a home is better than renting, but when I see all these huge new apartment buildings being built, and filled up as soon as they're built. there has to be a lot of people who prefer renting.

To each his own, I reckon.
 
   / Pickups the new Luxury Car?
  • Thread Starter
#127  
Only bought one new vehicle for myself... all the others were bought well used with most at the bottom of the depreciation curve... like the $800 car I drove for 20 years and still have.

Lease returns were a large part of the family car business for decades... it kind of ebbs and flows. Tax changes and changes to corporate thinking affect the leasing business.

Not everyone that leases comes up short.

I venture to guess that the majority of Doctors lease... the parking lot is full of late model higher end cars and they rotate quite often... BMW, Mercedes, Tesla, Porsche, Ford F150, etc... many had said they will never again own a vehicle outside of warranty...
 
   / Pickups the new Luxury Car? #128  
As I mentioned, I owned a 2004 Jaguar xj8 for a few years and put 45k miles on it. There were sensors on top of sensors. Oil changes cost $100 and every time I took it into the shop, it was at least $1,000. Now, I did get the extended warranty because I knew how expensive they were to fix, but wouldn't have done it without a warranty. It had an air suspension system that cost $1,500 per side to repair. So, I drove it for 3 years at a cost of $233 per month - not bad for driving a $60-70k car when new in 2004, but it was a 10 year old car. It did leave me stranded on New Years Eve one year when the bolt dropped out of cable that connected to the transmission and a couple of times put me in limp-home-mode keeping me under 25 mph.

Only bought one new vehicle for myself... all the others were bought well used with most at the bottom of the depreciation curve... like the $800 car I drove for 20 years and still have.

Lease returns were a large part of the family car business for decades... it kind of ebbs and flows. Tax changes and changes to corporate thinking affect the leasing business.

Not everyone that leases comes up short.

I venture to guess that the majority of Doctors lease... the parking lot is full of late model higher end cars and they rotate quite often... BMW, Mercedes, Tesla, Porsche, Ford F150, etc... many had said they will never again own a vehicle outside of warranty...
 
   / Pickups the new Luxury Car? #129  
OK, so.... are pickups the new luxury car? For me, the answer is yes - my F150 is sooo comfortable driving 3-4 hours up to the cottage. And I can carry and or trailer a whole bunch of stuff to boot!
 
   / Pickups the new Luxury Car? #130  
OK, so.... are pickups the new luxury car?

x2. I find trucks more comfortable than cars. I *think* it's the height of the seat off the floor. My knees are bent more, instead of being out in front of me.
Trucks are the best, our charger is next, and our civic is the worst of the bunch. The truck was no back pain after a 6 hour drive, the charger takes about 6-ish, and the civic is 2-3-ish hours.

Of course, can't beat auto-dimming mirrors, heated seats, cooled seats, 10-way (I think) adjustable seats, and dual climate control. Can't possibly be without memory seats, tailgate lift assist, mirrors that adjust down in reverse to see the parking lot lines, and power galore.

Yeah, VERY luxury.
 

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