Pistols(whats a good one to buy ?) *DELETED*

[PBMAX]

Re: Pistols(whats a good one to buy ?)

I'm glad to see most here keep harping on training. I happen to be of the opinion that if you have to think about how to fire a hand held weapon of any type ODDs are it's to late. Regardless if it's simi-auto or not.
We used to do small arms training every chance we could and had "quals" 2 to 3 times a year on board ship.

AS a GMM3 (GunnersMate) I of course was involvled heavily. (ESPECIALLY CLEAN UP /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif )
We only had the basic
.45, M14, M60, 12 gauge, (and of course the 50 cal./forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif CAN YOU SAY FULL AUTO!!!!)/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Our Senior Chief instisted all personel onboard wether the job called for it or not was properly trained and given as many chances to fire the .45, and shotgun as we could get in. (these being most commonly issued for security)

The one thing he repeatedly pounded into us was practice, practice, practice....Be familiar with both the ups and downs, ins and outs of the weapon you are carrying...

Often when some one finds out I was a GM they ask what would be the best handgun for them... I usually tell them I don't know, but I recomed they find a range (or shooting club) and try out several if possible and ask for help from the folk that run the range. Most of them will do as much as they can to help...

There is even a new range I heard about on the local radio here that will rent you a hand gun and teach you how to handle it and if you decide to buy it the rent goes to the cost of purchase....


Over all I would say again as have many, TRAINING and EDUCATION are vital to fire arm saftey and not just for the person going to carry it either....

My personal choice is a Remington .45 1911.... ways about 8lbs sturdy (little reqoil do to wait with standard load) and repliable and I just happen to like it.. Glocks are awfully nice though... BUT OUCH they can be high.....

What ever you choose HAVE FUN practicing and BE SAFE.....

 

[Currmudgeon]

A lot of good thoughts in this thread. I'll only add a couple of random thoughts.

A revolver is more flexible than an automatic in terms of what you can fire from it. Basically, if it's the proper calibre, you can shoot it. This includes some oddball stuff like aerial flares, shotshells, blanks, ... I'm sure I've missed a few. An automatic does not have that flexibility, and some are downright finicky in what they will feed.

Whetever you get, also get a .22. The ammunition is cheap to the point of nearly being free. If you do any amount of shooting, the .22 will pay for itself in big bore ammunition not consumed.

Practice, practice, practice. Then go out and practice.

If you are considering defensive use, do a soul search and determine if you are willing to use it to kill someone. If not, then don't consider using a gun in self defence. If you are capable of using it, then take the time to wargame some situations so you have some idea of what you will do and what you will say if, heaven forbid, you do have to shoot. Take the time to walk the house from s shooter's point of view. You have the advantage of home turf, - be able to make the best use of it.

 

[RanchMan]

Re: Pistols(whats a good one to buy ?)

Fishman -
<font color="blue">..I'm going to have to disagree with your basic premise. That being that all semi-auto's and revolvers are equal in terms of ease of use. </font>

I never said this.

It's a big leap to take my statments that say semi-autos "aren't that hard" to every type of gun is "equally as easy."

I never said that all handguns (i.e. revolvers vs. semi's) were "equal" in the "ease of use" department. As a matter of fact, I stated in my earlier posts that there were "extra steps" involved with the function/action/handling/etc. aspects of semi's. I also pointed out some of the pitfalls (i.e. functionality under harsh environments, being "finicky" about ammo, etc.)
What I said (and continue to put forth) is that (1) there is nothing inherently dangerous about modern semi-auto and (2) it is not difficult for the newcomer of typical intelligence to understand and handle a semi-auto safely.

With regards to all the different "flavors" of semi-autos that exist, yes, you are correct -- but we aren't talking about outfitting a newcomer with 18 different semi-auto pistols to learn on - we are talking 1. If they transition to a different "flavor" of semi-auto in the future, yes, you could have a learning curve, but again, that's way beyond the scope of this discussion - we're talking about a newcomer, not a "newcomer" years from now.

Incidentally, this "learning" curve will exist for even "experienced" semi-auto owners if they go to a different design or for someone who "learned" on a revolver and has made the decision to switch over a semi.

 

[disk_drive_eng]

Re: Pistols(whats a good one to buy ?)

Ranchman and others,

My previous post seems to have struck a nerve of some sort which was not my intention. So, clear things up, I would like to add a few personal notes and observations here to explain the motivation behind my advice on starting with a revolver.

I've no doubt that some people find autos to be no more difficult than revolvers, even as beginners. I was not fortunate enough to have that experience.

For my first handgun I was advised to start with a revolver and I'm glad I did. I found it far easier to deal with initially for the reasons in my post.

My wife felt the same way. To this day she far prefers a revolver precisely because she does not have to remember all the details of auto operation. Not that she couldn't, she just doesn't choose to put in the time and effort required for becoming proficient with it.

Later, I learned autos, put in a lot of practice, and participated for a long time in combat pistol competitions with the venerable Colt .45 ACP. As I'm sure you know, this requires one to intimately know the weapon in order to accurately aim, fire, reload, recognize and clear various types of jams, etc. as fast as possible.

One of the problems I've often seen on the range is with inexperienced shooters becoming confused as to the state of their auto weapons, or not knowing what to do with a jam. I've sees this a lot less with revolvers. I can't recall seing an accidental discharge with a double action revolver, but I've seen plenty with autos.

My sons learned firearms first with a bolt action .22 rifle, with me handing them one round at a time. Later, I would let them fill the magazine. Then, having learned that, I let them use a semi-auto rifle. Then a revolver before an auto handgun. So I have tried to practice what I preach.

As for the evening news tragedies, it is regrettable that they can and do happen with every type of weapon. But in my experience (no scientific study here, sorry) far too many involved confusion with autos when "it was unloaded" but yet a round was still chambered, leading to disastrous results.

So, I think the advice I got and have followed myself is still good advice. That's why I took the time to share it on this forum.

Respectfully,

DDE

 

[RanchMan]

Re: Pistols(whats a good one to buy ?)

Disk_drive_eng -

I'm glad you have had "good luck" with the way you learned and seem to understand my point that yes, even the individual of average intelligence can successfully start out and learn how to shoot SAFELY with a semi-auto. I also appreciate the respectful tone of your latest post.

With regards to the thread as a whole, it's becoming more and more evident to me that I'm beating a dead horse with most folks however. For whatever reason, even if they "kindof" agree with me, they can't bring themselves to get away from the idea of "training-wheel(guns)." Perhaps it's because it's how they were introduced in to the handgun arena. Perhaps it is because they have seen someone do something stupid with a semi-auto. Perhaps it is because they themselves are intimidated by the "complexities" of a semi-auto. Or perhaps it is for one of a thousand other explanations.

Yes, I will admit, a revolver is more forgiving of a fool, but just because such an individual "got away" with doing something stupid because he was using a revolver, it does not make him less the fool or any "safer." It makes him (and those around him) lucky. When he converts to a semi-auto down the line, such an idiot has now developed unsafe habits that will put him (and others) at an extreme risk.

Idiots shooting holes in their lockers, cars, or other people at the range have NEVER been the individuals I was referring to when discussing how the "typical beginner" is capable of starting out with and safely learning to shoot a semi-auto. In fact, quite the opposite. My argument was that the typical beginner who wants to and puts forth the effort to learn properly can be successful and completely avoid "accidental" situations regardless of the type of handgun they choose to start with. It is all a function of basic memorization and following basic procedures to ensure safety. (i.e. a semi-auto it is NOT "rocket science" as some would seem to have us believe.)

One final point before I close since you brought up your wife. This evening while we were in the truck, I mentioned in passing this thread to my wife. (mistake /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif) I expressed my frustration at some of the concepts presented here. Now, admittedly, she is biased (she is married to me, after all. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif) Her response was that "Those guys don't know what they're talking about." (her words, not mine.) I say "mistake" because she then promptly chastised me for ever getting involved with the thread. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

It's funny. She never touched a gun before she met me. (She is one of the individuals I instructed.) She started out with (and continues to use) a semi-auto and has yet to have an "accident" even after years and years of shooting --- just like her husband. /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

 

[Egon]

Re: Pistols(whats a good one to buy ?)

I be confused.

One would think the revlover and the pistol will each have quirks which must be delt with on an individual design basis. It would seem that the user should be aware of how the short gun of their choice handles and conform to those conditions.

Perhaps the physical characterists of an individual may also affect the choice. Small hands or large hands? stength ? single action, double action, safety location and type, pounds of trigger pull required all go into the choice.

The same type of conditions should apply to long guns.

Egon

 

[MikePA]

This thread has gone the way the previous threads about handguns have gone. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

1. Questions asking for clarification about the intended use.
2. Opinions about whether semi-automatics or revolvers would be the right choice.
3. Opinions about calibers.
4. Debate as to the safety of revolver vs semi and SA vs DA.

We've just entered the misunderstanding/misquoting phase. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

 

[RanchMan]

Re: Pistols(whats a good one to buy ?)

Yup. I agree. All those factors should be taken in to account when choosing a handgun in addition to the aspects such as intended use, etc.

 

[fishman]

Hey, as long as people don't get too bent out of shape, it's all fun, isn't it? /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[RanchMan]

MikePA -

As you point out, there are a lot of ancillary aspects that go way beyond the initial question of "How much would a good handgun cost me." - however, I would suggest that at least some of them are directly related to the initial question.

As you point out, pretty any much gun thread has a habit of winding up opening in to a much larger subject than the "simple" question posed. No denying it - folks who talk guns have very strong opinions and are not afraid to espouse them. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif