Pistols(whats a good one to buy ?) *DELETED*

[RanchMan]

Re: Pistols(whats a good one to buy ?)

Joe1 -

<font color="blue"> I don't know if that can be done with an automatic without replacing the barrel, slide and possibly some springs as well, which I assume would also be more expensive. </font>

Incorrect assumption. None of those things have to be changed.

Recoil springs are changed if "non-typical" loads are fired within them - such as super light or super heavy loads - and they only run about $10 in for a 1911, so your "expense" on springs is unjustified.

The slide does not have to be replaced either. If anything has to be replaced, it would be the bushing up front (if the design has a replaceable one) and this is generally done only if the barrel itself is thicker than the original or has a permanently mounted bushing on it. You can get a 1911 bushing for ~$25, but again, it is most likely not even required.

Longer "Drop In" barrels (such as those with barrel mounted compensators or extended with threads) can be had for the 1911 for under $100, the PPK for under $85, or the Makarov for under $60. Not what I consider "expensive" either.

Something else to consider: If you take your Ruger or S&W revolver to the gunsmith every time you want the barrel changed out you most likely are going to spend somewhere between $35-$50 (hourly smith shop rates range). Do that a few times a year and in just a few years, you could have had enough money to buy a whole additional gun in a different caliber/cartridge more suited to the other use. (i.e. hunting or whatever).

If if I wanted a convertable gun, I'd go with an auto I can switch out cartridges chamberings in under a minute, but even then, I'd much rather have purpose-built guns for each specific function instead of relying on one to "do it all." A Swiss Army knife does do a little of everything OK, it doesn't do everything great - no different with guns (of any type.)

 

[RobertN]

Re: Pistols(whats a good one to buy ?)

The only auto which could fit with the "Deer on the farm" and "carry on the tractor" that I know of would be my favorite Desert Eagle. A.44 would fit the bill. Barrels are available in 6", 10", and 14". Having had one(till UPS stole it), the 6" barrel would be fine. In the past, I consistently hit Pig silhouttes at 100m(8 of 8 from a full clip) and ok on Turkey silhouttes(6 of 8 in clip) offhand, with a 6" barrel. I am out of practice now, so probably would not shoot that well, but at 50 yards think deer size would be doable.

I am not aware of any other Semi in a cartridge big enough for deer, although one of the 1911 based .357's or a 10mm might work?

Now, the carry/defense part comes in. A DE is capable, but is big and to carry would be rather obvious. The others available would be light or small for the deer.

This is really sounding like a two gun deal. It is hard to fit both bills all around. A .44 revolver could do deer, but the large frame would, again, be hard for defense type carry. Aa 6" S&W-x29 or Ruger Redhawk could easily do the tractor/deer/property gun thing, but carry is harder.

It looks like a compromise might be in order. Two guns for thier specific applications, or a good defensive pistol that may be marginal for deer/varmit, or vica versa...

 

[RanchMan]

Re: Pistols(whats a good one to buy ?)

We agree - multiple guns would be a better fit to the multiple uses listed by Hickory. Finding a single gun that "does it all" will result in a firearm that will do a few of the activities well and be mediocre or even potentially poor in the others.

Re: the 10mm: It has more energy than the .357 and is what one of my hunting buddies uses. He's had good luck with it on deer. All things being equal, it has about 100 more ft/lb at 30 yards than the .357. 'Course the .44 Mag outperforms it (it has about 230 more ft/lb than the 10mm), but I believe it is sufficient provided distances aren't too far out and it would be a much better option than .357 in this area.

All things considered though, I'd still feel more comfortable with the .44 for hunting and something like .357 or .45 ACP for defense or general shooting.

 

[MikePA]

Re: Pistols(whats a good one to buy ?)

<font color="blue"> As far as killing it would be a deer, but if you see a rabid fox or an injured animal or a feral dog it is nice not to have to go back to the house to get a rifle. </font>
I'm confused /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif. Do you want a sidearm that could efficiently kill a deer, should you happen upon one while on the tractor/doing chores, or do you specifically want to hunt deer with this handgun?

I ask this because the consensus of opinion appears to be buying 2 separate handguns, one of them for hunting. Unless you really want to hunt with a handgun, I'd recommend buying a handgun that's easy and convenient to carry on the tractor and while doing chores as well as having enough power to drop a deer (a .357 or .45) and a rifle for hunting deer.

 

[RobertN]

Re: Pistols(whats a good one to buy ?)

Why a rifle? If the solution is for a smaller carry/defense gun is used, a larger pistol would be more than sufficient for deer. You are right though, the hunting weapon should be defined a bit more. If it is for hunting, then it would probably be a larger magnum, and may even have a scope on it.

Previously it was stated that rifles are already in the selection, capable of hunting; he didn't want to have to run back to the house if he could already be carrying something with him.

What you describe would be nice though... In that case, I would take a peak at a 357 revolver and a 357 lever action to accompany it, or same combo in .44 or even 45LC.

 

[fishman]

Re: Pistols(whats a good one to buy ?)

RobertN,

The Dan Wesson setup had a barrel liner installed inside the outer shroud that looked just like any other barrel with a front sight, etc. The liner screwed into the frame on the front and cylinder gap was set with a feeler gauge. Then the shroud was slid over the liner and a barrel nut was screwed onto the liner to secure it. On older models this nut was visible, but on newer models it was recessed in the end of the barrel shroud.

This approach was very accurate and the speculation was that the installation procedure tensioned the barrel sleeve (just like some high dollar rifle barrels today) and provided for uniform harmonics resulting in good accuracy.

I've shot two extensively. The first .357 I had was a very old model, one of the originals with a 4" barrel. It shot exceptionally well until it got out of time and I started getting bits of lead hitting me in my left cheek. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif Didn't want to invest the money in fixing it, and so it went on a trade. Regret that, actually, as I haven't found a 4" revolver yet that will hang with it accuracy-wise.

As an aside, I saw two pistol paks the other day at a local gun shop for $500 each, asking price. Good, good deal and they were soon gone.

Sorry to ramble a little off topic. But, to rephrase the stuff above, if one bought a Dan Wesson .357 with a 4" and a 10" barrel, personal protection and deer hunting would be covered. They are firearms of excellent quality and accuracy.

 

[Currmudgeon]

Re: Pistols(whats a good one to buy ?)

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I have thought about getting a concealed weapon permit as well. )</font>

I would, if only for convenience. You're slightly less likely to run afoul of the law, while you're taking it to the gunsmiths or the range.

 

[Currmudgeon]

Re: Pistols(whats a good one to buy ?)

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( a revolver 's 2 1/2" barrel can be easily replaced with a 4", 6" or longer depending on the weapon, with simple tools.)</font>

The only revolver I know that will do that is the old Dan Wesson. I believe any conventional revolver would take hand fitting to make a new barrel fit properly. This is a gunsmith task, and a good gunsmith at that.

 

[Currmudgeon]

Re: Pistols(whats a good one to buy ?)

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I wonder how they set the barrels so sight alignment would be correct? Maybe both sights were on the barrel? )</font>

The Dan wesson barrel assembly consisted of thee parts, the barrel liner, the barrel jacket, and a nut. The barrel screws into the frame and is made up against a feeler gauge to provide the proper cylinder gap. The barrel jacket simply slips over the barrel. It's indexed to the frame with a pin or a notch or something, so the sights line up. The nut holds the whole thing together and puts the barrel into tension.

 

[patrickg]

Re: Pistols(whats a good one to buy ?)

And now for what may be a minority opinion:

Training/lisc for a concealed weapon permit in Oklahoma has a hierarchy. You can be lisc for Derringer, revolver, or autoloader. Derringer lisc is for Derringer only. Revolver lilsc is for revolver or Derringer. Auto loader is for any of the three. Clearly someone thought there was a range of difficulties or complexibilities. This wasn't a piece of legislaltion passed by bureaucratic bozos with no input from experts. (I have credentials in instructional technology and am a certified training expert) I have no problem with the hierarchy.

That said, my personal favorite handguns of long standing (not in priority or pref order) are: Walther P-38 (9MM auto), Colt Gold Cup National Match .45 ACP, Ruger Super Blackhawk .44 magnum single action revolver. Lately I have been shooting a Ruger 22-45 autoloader, Ruger Mk-II autoloader, and a Wallther P-22, all .22 autoloaders.

For personal protection at home I have used the .44 mag but moved ashore from my saillboat and needed something less of a problem to neighbors so I went Colt .45 ACP. I now carry a concealed "baby" Glock in .45ACP and my wife's concealed carry is a S&W AirLight in .357 magnum.

Her 5 shot hammerless revolver in .357 is the most reliable, trouble free weapon sized appropriately to accomplish its purpose that I could find. It truly is point and shoot. Once loaded, which is dead simple, there are NO CONTROLS except the trigger. No safety, no hammer to catch on anything when pulling it from concealment. Point it, pull the trigger, point it pull the trigger (repeat as needed up to 5 times.)

The over whelming majority of situations encountered by citizens using concealed weapons DO NOT REQUIRE RELOADING and do not require more than 2-3 shots and are over in a few seconds. From a practical standpoint, you need high cap mags in realistic self defense scenarios like you need tactical nuclear weapons for home defense.

The AirLight is an excellent personal protection weapon, especially for someone who maybe doesn't train, train, and train.

My Baby Glock similarly has no safety and is a point and shoot weapon. IT IS NOT AS TROUBLE FREE AS A REVOLVER. It requires a higher commitment to training and maint and upkeep.

My .45 ACP Colt and the Glock will both autoload CCI shot shells. The Colt has more smithing in it than it cost. The Glock is stock. I carry an extra mag loaded with "snake shot" and sometimes just cary a snake load in the chamber and the rest are "war shots."

For law enforcement and those who intend to get into extended fire fights, I waiver my comments RE reloading and mag cap.

For emphasis I repeat: There is no more reliable or safe hand gun for concealed carry with more than two shots than a hammerless revolver. You will never try to shoot with the safety on in a tense situation. You won't fumble around trying to get the hammer untangled from your clothes or whatever. These are not the high testosterone super bragging rights Dirty Harry awe inspiring as seen in the "Terminator" hardware but they do the job with the highest reliability, least training and practice to use safely and effectively.

Bonus: They take Speer plastic target ammo at about the price of shooting bulk .22's so you can easily handle the cost of lots of practice if you choose to do so. Speer target ammo can be shot indoors at home with decent ventilaltion and just a little care in selecting your "range" and backstop.

For in-home defense it is hard to beat a good shotgun but I personally opt to use the same weapon at home as for concealed carry.

/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif Pat /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif