wldrbob
Bronze Member
- Joined
- Feb 24, 2008
- Messages
- 80
- Location
- swan river manitoba canada
- Tractor
- white 2/60 case 830 w4 international cletrac cat
how about the next 5 or 6 ?lol
Plasma Questions
- Thread starter Hilbilly
- Start date
- Views: 11269
jimcolt
Gold Member
Plasma is an essential tool to those that do a lot of cutting on a variety of thicknesses and types of metal. Of course there are many choices (brands, technologies, power levels, colors and price), and not all plasmas have the same capability and technology.
-With a good shielded plasma torch you drag the shield directly on the workpiece, the torch drags very smoothly and you can adjust the amperage until the speed is comfortable for the operator. Templates, straightedges, etc, made from metl or plastic or cardboard all work fine with a shielded torch. Very smooth edges are easily done.
-Unshielded plasma torches require a bit more operator skill as it is best to hold a slight standoff. Touching the material with an unshielded plasma causes arcing from the nozzle to the plate, and causes the torch to stick a bit which creates a rough cut. Shielded is the way to go.
-If you are just starting out and buying tools for your shop...get an oxy-fuel setup before a plasma. While it won't be as versatile for cutting...the oxy-fuel has advantages...heating, bending, loosening rusted, stuck parts, etc., as well as cutting on steel. Disadvantages are that they cost more to operate than (a good brand plasma) plasma, use flammable gas, and won't cut non-ferrous.
- There are a ton of low cost imports.....they do have reliability issues, and definitely do not cut as well as the major brands (higher cost). Typically a 45 amp Hypertherm plasma will outcut (speed, cut quality) a 60 amp low cost import. Parts and service will be available for decades....the imports parts will not. Huge advantage of the Hypertherm brand is consumables will typically outlast the imports by about 10:1.
-Air plasma systems can be easily adapted to mechanized cutting as well.
Jim
-With a good shielded plasma torch you drag the shield directly on the workpiece, the torch drags very smoothly and you can adjust the amperage until the speed is comfortable for the operator. Templates, straightedges, etc, made from metl or plastic or cardboard all work fine with a shielded torch. Very smooth edges are easily done.
-Unshielded plasma torches require a bit more operator skill as it is best to hold a slight standoff. Touching the material with an unshielded plasma causes arcing from the nozzle to the plate, and causes the torch to stick a bit which creates a rough cut. Shielded is the way to go.
-If you are just starting out and buying tools for your shop...get an oxy-fuel setup before a plasma. While it won't be as versatile for cutting...the oxy-fuel has advantages...heating, bending, loosening rusted, stuck parts, etc., as well as cutting on steel. Disadvantages are that they cost more to operate than (a good brand plasma) plasma, use flammable gas, and won't cut non-ferrous.
- There are a ton of low cost imports.....they do have reliability issues, and definitely do not cut as well as the major brands (higher cost). Typically a 45 amp Hypertherm plasma will outcut (speed, cut quality) a 60 amp low cost import. Parts and service will be available for decades....the imports parts will not. Huge advantage of the Hypertherm brand is consumables will typically outlast the imports by about 10:1.
-Air plasma systems can be easily adapted to mechanized cutting as well.
Jim
ThomasH
Gold Member
I have never seen any side by side comprehensive evaluations of consumable life, but in general I think it is fair to say that you should buy a unit that is commensurate with your intended use. Not the the most expensive possible, nor the cheapest, but what makes the best sense in your situation.
I use a plasma unit a few hours a month typically, with some bursts where I need to use it 4-6 hours in a few days. I used to have a Miller Spectrum 375 which is a reasonably good plasma unit, but the torch was worn out again and had to be replaced again, so I decided to look around. I ended up buying an Everlast 70S amp cutter to replace it. The main reason that I didn't spend more is that I couldn't justify the business expense at this time. The Everlast unit happened to be on sale at Amazon for about $700, which was less than 1/2 what the Miller, Thermal Arc, and others I looked it.
It has a good bit more power than the Miller that it replaced did (roughly 2x) and cuts much faster. So far I see no difference in consumables. I don't doubt that one or two cutter/torch combinations by some premier makers wouldn't cost less to operate. I do know that with my level of use, I will be long dead and gone before I would come close to breaking even. The torch that came with my unit is a standard Trafimet S75 torch with consumables available from a number of sources. I would guess from my limited use (15 or so hours so far in 3 months), the consumables will last about the same as the Miller (needed none so far and have gotten high quality cuts in 1/4 - 1/2" steel).
So with a long warranty (5 years on the Everlast units) and reasonable consumable life, it works well for me. If I were using one several hours or more a day, my buying decision probably would have been different in that I would have bought one that was the most economical to operate.
To be clear here, I am not affiliated with any company and most of my welding equipment is Miller. That's why I bought a Miller cutter about 10 years ago, because it was the locally supported and 'safe' purchase to make. I paid what at the time seemed like a heck of a lot of money for it. When I started using it, I quickly realized that it made my OA torch obsolete for me.
Now that cutters are more common, supplies can be easily bought on the internet, and prices are more competitive than they have been in the past, the market has changed such that smaller shops and even home shops can have one. And there is a large variety of quality of machines from junk (imho Harbor Freight, LOTOS, etc.) to high quality units with a number of price points. Don't buy into the hype that there is only one good brand that should be bought in all circumstances.
Tom
I use a plasma unit a few hours a month typically, with some bursts where I need to use it 4-6 hours in a few days. I used to have a Miller Spectrum 375 which is a reasonably good plasma unit, but the torch was worn out again and had to be replaced again, so I decided to look around. I ended up buying an Everlast 70S amp cutter to replace it. The main reason that I didn't spend more is that I couldn't justify the business expense at this time. The Everlast unit happened to be on sale at Amazon for about $700, which was less than 1/2 what the Miller, Thermal Arc, and others I looked it.
It has a good bit more power than the Miller that it replaced did (roughly 2x) and cuts much faster. So far I see no difference in consumables. I don't doubt that one or two cutter/torch combinations by some premier makers wouldn't cost less to operate. I do know that with my level of use, I will be long dead and gone before I would come close to breaking even. The torch that came with my unit is a standard Trafimet S75 torch with consumables available from a number of sources. I would guess from my limited use (15 or so hours so far in 3 months), the consumables will last about the same as the Miller (needed none so far and have gotten high quality cuts in 1/4 - 1/2" steel).
So with a long warranty (5 years on the Everlast units) and reasonable consumable life, it works well for me. If I were using one several hours or more a day, my buying decision probably would have been different in that I would have bought one that was the most economical to operate.
To be clear here, I am not affiliated with any company and most of my welding equipment is Miller. That's why I bought a Miller cutter about 10 years ago, because it was the locally supported and 'safe' purchase to make. I paid what at the time seemed like a heck of a lot of money for it. When I started using it, I quickly realized that it made my OA torch obsolete for me.
Now that cutters are more common, supplies can be easily bought on the internet, and prices are more competitive than they have been in the past, the market has changed such that smaller shops and even home shops can have one. And there is a large variety of quality of machines from junk (imho Harbor Freight, LOTOS, etc.) to high quality units with a number of price points. Don't buy into the hype that there is only one good brand that should be bought in all circumstances.
Tom
dragoneggs
Super Star Member
- Joined
- Jun 9, 2013
- Messages
- 14,548
- Location
- Seabeck, Washington
- Tractor
- Kubota BX-25D, Kubota Z122RKW-42
I am in the market and have never owned an O/A setup. I don't want to hassle with the bottles and like the flexibility with plasma, non ferrous, and it seems easier. Maybe this isn't true? Haven't tried it yet and I really can't justify the cost but it will be a fun tool no doubt. The powermax 30XP has me drooling. I want to be able to drag on material. Ideally, I would like a 45 and a companion CNC table but that is dreaming!
As it turns out my 14" cut off saw doesn't like going through 3/8" x 3" flat bar when it laid flat. I ended up cutting all my grapple tines with OA. It actually turned out better than I expected and there was only one cut that might need a little weld to fix. I was thinking of getting a metal cutting bandsaw plus a larger OXY tank but then I seen ThomasH's comments and checked out the Everlast prices on the internet. I found a Canadian price for a 50 amp unit that stated $900 but they were out of stock. So I started thinking that may be the way to go instead of getting a metal bandsaw plus a larger OXY tank. The pair would run me about $700. So if I can get a decent Plasma cutter for a little more I think that would be a better long term investment for me. I can still fill my small oxy tank and have OA avaialble for heating etc, and use the plasma for all my cutting.
I've got to check this out.
I've got to check this out.
Big Barn
Super Member
- Joined
- Aug 20, 2013
- Messages
- 7,047
- Location
- Victoria, B C
- Tractor
- More than 40 over the years. Ten at any one time. Mostly Ford and New Holland
If you do get the larger oxygen tank KMS has the 110 cu ft on sale for $220 in their current flyer. 250 cu ft is $300. And their TD Cutmaster 42 plaz is $1219.95
Before anyone comments on prices keep in mind we are in Canada.
Terry
That's where I'm heading tomorrow. Last month they had the TD on for $1199 and I was very tempted to get one but then I read some comments on this forum somewhere about the TD 42 not having a standoff for dragging the head across the metal and I think that is very important for a novice like me. Then I seen the Everlast 50 and it was listed on the Everlast Canadian site at $900. That plasma has more power and I've seen some good reviews from members here. The only problem the Everlast Canada site states they have NO stock of the 3 plasmas listed on their site, the 50, 60 and 80 (I think). So apparently they don't have ANY plasmas to sell. I'll make some calls tomorrow morning before I head in to Kamloops. That always turns out to be an 8 hr day. An hour there, an hour back plus running around to all the stores that aren't available in the little town closest to us. I don't want to get the bigger oxy tank if I'm going to get a plasma. Hopefully I can get this all sorted out tomorrow or I'll have to go back again when I make the final decision.
Scooby074
Super Member
One thing to consider is service.
AFAIK with everlast (and the other chicom cutters) you have to ship the plasma back to them on your dime. Any of the big brands should have service depots relatively close.
I dont know what Canada Post would want to ship a plasma cutter, but it wont be cheap.
AFAIK with everlast (and the other chicom cutters) you have to ship the plasma back to them on your dime. Any of the big brands should have service depots relatively close.
I dont know what Canada Post would want to ship a plasma cutter, but it wont be cheap.
Big Barn
Super Member
- Joined
- Aug 20, 2013
- Messages
- 7,047
- Location
- Victoria, B C
- Tractor
- More than 40 over the years. Ten at any one time. Mostly Ford and New Holland
I can't advise as to which plasma to buy if you go that route (I have two Millers and no experience with any other) but keep the oxy-fuel setup even with your small tanks for cutting jobs away from an electrical power source and all your heating, shrinking and bending tasks.
Have fun in the big city.
Terry
Have fun in the big city.
Terry
wldrbob
Bronze Member
- Joined
- Feb 24, 2008
- Messages
- 80
- Location
- swan river manitoba canada
- Tractor
- white 2/60 case 830 w4 international cletrac cat
why didnt you put your flatbar on edge?
I had to cut a 15 deg angle across the width and the Makita head doesn't pivot. So the onlt way to achieve that is to lay the bar flat.
When I was in the city I picked up a Makita steel cutting blade with diamonds impregnated around the circumference. The smaller bandsaws wouldn't cut a 45 on the 3" bar so I figured I'd give this a try. I also picked up a 110 cu ft oxy tank and will continue using that for cutting until I decide on Plasma or not. I didn't have time today but I'm thinking I should get the propane setup so I can use it for cutting too.
CNC Dan
Veteran Member
Diamonds are carbon.
Steel is mostly iron.
Carbon dissolves into iron at high temperatures.
Diamond abrasives don't last long when used on steel.
Cubic boron nitride (CBN) is a better choice.
downsizingnow48
Elite Member
I use a Makita steel cutting circular saw for cuts like that. Cordless.
Well that's not good news. The blade wasn't cheap ($130 plus taxes) and I tried it tonight. It cuts ok but definitely not 4 times as fast as the abrasive blades, like they claim. They also claim this will last as long as 120 abrasive blades. I'm thinking this is also BS. Anyways time will tell.
The other day, when I discovered the abrasive blade wouldn't cut the last part of the 3/8" flat bar, I used the OA torch and even though I'm not good at it, I was very pleased with the results. Very little grinding required (well for most of the cuts). Now I'm thinking I should have just stuck with that process. But it is always nice to have something better and more accurate. Besides I like tools and it can't be wrong to get more...........can it?
Big Barn
Super Member
- Joined
- Aug 20, 2013
- Messages
- 7,047
- Location
- Victoria, B C
- Tractor
- More than 40 over the years. Ten at any one time. Mostly Ford and New Holland
I just reread the KMS flyer ad for the Makita blade. They claim '120x the life of abrasive wheels and 4x the life of carbide blades.' I was looking at it in the store and might have purchased it if I was out of blades. Keep us posted.
Terry
I'm saving the metal blade for the more difficult cuts. Today I used the abrasive blades to cut up some 3/8" x 3" flat bar for gusset plates for my grapple build but the cuts were made on edge and went fine. I cut the bars 8" long, then ripped them with the OA torch to make triangles. I'm getting better with the OA cutting and didn't have to do welding fills today. Maybe I just got lucky. Here's a pic of one of the cuts. Not the best put good enough for me. They only took a little grinder work to dress up.
Underdog57
Veteran Member
Good job! Looks like you don't need to spend money on a plasma!
Scooby074
Super Member
Your cuts are looking good. Little more practice.
Thanks, I was still thinking a plasma would be nice so I could use wooden templates to make my cuts but for the amount of cutting I do it really isn't needed. I found a 40 Amp unit for $500 and If I read a bunch of good reviews for it I would probably get one. But I'm definitely not going to spend a couple grand for something I will hardly ever use.
The practice sure makes a difference. I've always been intimidated by OA cutting and have tried to find ways to avoid it. But for this project I was pretty much stuck with having to use it for some of the work. Now I'm gaining confidence and using it for cuts I could make on my abrasive saw. Whats that old saying.............. oh ya "practice, practice, practice".
My birthday is coming up and I couldn't think of anything I wanted so I said to myself, "why not get a plasma .... you've thought about it many times". So I did some more research on the "less expensive" brands and there seemed to be 2 sets of customer reviews; 1) either very happy or 2) very unhappy, not much in between. It seems that if the cutter works then the customer is happy, but if there is any problem with the machine during the warranty period and it has to be shipped back for repairs it takes forever to get it back. or they can't get any response from the company. I read that someone sent there's in for repairs (at his cost for shipping, both ways) and 4 months later still had not got it back. Ended up buying another (different brand) machine. Others complained about horrible customer service if there is a problem and others couldn't find a local repair shop that was willing to work on the machine because parts could be an issue. With my luck I would end up being one of those unhappy customers.
I tend to be a "frugal" (read cheap) person and don't like to spend more that I absolutely have to for something but I have also had some bad experiences when buying the non brand name or less expensive stuff. Even so, I was still considering a "Chinese" cutter just because they are much cheaper. But when I was using my beloved Lincoln wire feed welder, that I have had for about 10 years, it hit me! I needed to get some new equipment for it so I could run larger wire. That meant I had to get a different liner for the wire feed, a different drive roller, different tips and the larger wire. I just went to the local KMS tool store and ordered the stuff. Most of it was in the next day. The important message to myself was that even after 10 years I can still get new parts and consumables for my welder, without any problems. So I decided then that I would get a name brand plasma but only if I didn't have to pay a huge amount for it.
I found a deal on a new Hypertherm Powermax 30 but was concerned that it might not be enough machine for my wants / needs. So the dealer said "take it home and try it and if you don't like it I will refund your money". I took him up on the offer but found it was a little too slow for me at cutting 3/8" mild steel. It is rated for 1/4" and at that thickness it performed well. I took it back and no questions asked he said he would refund the full purchase price. I was impressed!! Then I told him I did some checking on line and found that the 30XP was rated for 3/8" not 1/4" like the 30 and suggested that would be the right machine for me but I wasn't willing to pay the much higher price for it that I was quoted by another supplier in town. The dealer I was working with didn't have one. I really wanted the 45 but that was waaaaayyyyyyy to much for me. So he checks out the company inventory and finds a 30xp in a town a few hrs away. Tells me he will sell it to me for $75 over cost. His price was $350 lower than the quote I got for the same machine from the other dealer in town. I said go for it and he even managed to get it on a shipment that is supposed to arrive tomorrow. What a great guy. I gave him a $20 tip for being so helpful. Now I can't wait for it to arrive. The only negative to this story is that I am done with all the cutting I need to do for my grapple build. I guess I better find something else that requires metal cutting.
Oh ya...... happy birthday to me.
I tend to be a "frugal" (read cheap) person and don't like to spend more that I absolutely have to for something but I have also had some bad experiences when buying the non brand name or less expensive stuff. Even so, I was still considering a "Chinese" cutter just because they are much cheaper. But when I was using my beloved Lincoln wire feed welder, that I have had for about 10 years, it hit me! I needed to get some new equipment for it so I could run larger wire. That meant I had to get a different liner for the wire feed, a different drive roller, different tips and the larger wire. I just went to the local KMS tool store and ordered the stuff. Most of it was in the next day. The important message to myself was that even after 10 years I can still get new parts and consumables for my welder, without any problems. So I decided then that I would get a name brand plasma but only if I didn't have to pay a huge amount for it.
I found a deal on a new Hypertherm Powermax 30 but was concerned that it might not be enough machine for my wants / needs. So the dealer said "take it home and try it and if you don't like it I will refund your money". I took him up on the offer but found it was a little too slow for me at cutting 3/8" mild steel. It is rated for 1/4" and at that thickness it performed well. I took it back and no questions asked he said he would refund the full purchase price. I was impressed!! Then I told him I did some checking on line and found that the 30XP was rated for 3/8" not 1/4" like the 30 and suggested that would be the right machine for me but I wasn't willing to pay the much higher price for it that I was quoted by another supplier in town. The dealer I was working with didn't have one. I really wanted the 45 but that was waaaaayyyyyyy to much for me. So he checks out the company inventory and finds a 30xp in a town a few hrs away. Tells me he will sell it to me for $75 over cost. His price was $350 lower than the quote I got for the same machine from the other dealer in town. I said go for it and he even managed to get it on a shipment that is supposed to arrive tomorrow. What a great guy. I gave him a $20 tip for being so helpful. Now I can't wait for it to arrive. The only negative to this story is that I am done with all the cutting I need to do for my grapple build.
I guess I better find something else that requires metal cutting.Oh ya...... happy birthday to me.
