Plow size

[bindian]

The last few hours I have been searching plow sizing per tractor or per horsepower. I found a lot of information on 30 hp tractors. I have a 6520 Mahindra (57 PTO horspower) 4WD with loader and a backhoe subframe for a Bradco/Mahindra 511 backhoe. Without the hoe it weighs around 10,000 pounds. I also plan on loading the tires. Can I put a 5-12 bottom plow or maybe a 4-16 plow? How about 6-12? I have read a lot of reposted Farmwithjunk's post to know to stay away from John Deere plows and look at White or Oliver or evan Ford plows. So...................................how many bottoms can I pull at 4-5 mph and what size?

Also, I have a real old Amco 9 foot offset disc I reconditioned and repainted. A lot of folks said I couldn't pull it and I did while having fun discing a 7 acre Jiggs hay patch. You can read about it here............ http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachments/270878-amco-offset-disc.html?highlight=amco+disc
hugs, Brandi

 

[BukitCase]

Brandi, years ago I bought an Oliver 880 diesel - it was maybe a bit lighter than yours, but not much, I was given an old 3-14 pull-behind plow which I converted to 3ph. That tractor would pull 3-14's with the tips of the mouldboards barely peeking out of summertime clay. It would occasionally lose traction, but NOT power - tires were NOT loaded.

Unlike most specs on tractordata.com, that 880 lists plow sizes

TractorData.com Oliver 880 tractor information

As you can see, you should have no trouble with a 4-14, and with loaded and/or wheel weights you might get away with a 4-16, but that would depend on conditions of course - I don't think I'd take a chance on a larger plow, unless I could borrow one first.

HTH... Steve

 

[jeff9366]

First you need to decide how deep you need to plow; 6"-7"-8"

Then research how many moldboard bottoms (12"-14"-16") you can pull with your Mahindra.

In Texas, with the drought, you should consider low-till Chisel Plows before committing to moldboard plows. A Chisel Plow and a heavy Disc Harrow can be a fine combination.

HISTORY (edited for clarity):

Preventing Wind Erosion Was The Primary Objective Of Fred Hoeme, a Hooker, Oklahoma Farmer, When He Developed A Heavy-Duty Chisel Plow In 1933. Hoeme And His Sons Manufactured And Sold About 2000 Plows From Their Farmstead. In 1938, W. T. Graham Purchased The Manufacturing And Distribution Rights And Established Manufacturing In Amarillo, Texas. The Graham-Hoeme Plow, Marketed As "The Plow To Save The Plains", Was Sold Worldwide. This Chisel Plow Helped Control Wind Erosion During The Seven-Year Drought Of The 1950's, When About Half Of Great Plains Farmers Are Estimated To Have Owned Chisel Plows. The Graham-Hoeme style Chisel Plow was Produced For Over Sixty Years And is The Forerunner Of all today's Chisel Plows.

The American Society of Agricultural Engineers created a list of outstanding engineering achievements of the 20th Century and in the power and machinery division, the Graham-Hoeme chisel plow is listed with the farm tractor, self-propelled combine, International Harvester cotton picker and Ford 9N tractor, according to Nolan Clark, laboratory director.



LINK:

Brillion Chisel Plows

 

[R W]

A chisel plough is a great machine.
For more information google PA Yeomans or Keyline Plowing also Graham Hoeme Chisel Plows.

 

[Deerherd]

I have an Athens chisel plow and if you go the chisel plow route three options you should consider are gauge wheels, Cat II QH compatibility and a TNT for your tractor.

Hooking up a chisel plow can be a real bear, when you drop it off your tractor it invariable settles at a bad angle. Due to the weight and way it digs in, there is no way you can horse it around to hook it up. With TNT and the QH you can match any angle easily and safely and turns a difficult job into a simple one.

 

[oosik]

My tractor is similar to yours - 9600 lb with loaded rear tires, 56 pto hp etc, etc. I have a three bottom moldboard plow - 3 X 16 - Pittsburg - bought new in '82. I plow 6"- 8" deep easily in the spring when the ground is damp. As summer comes on and the ground dries - thing get more difficult and if I do plow in the summer I go a max of 6" deep just to make thing go better. I don't think I would want a four bottom - I have the power but probably lack the weight & traction to make it an easy job.

My "soil" is organic for the top 5"- 8" and then its volcanic ash & grey clay mix below that. I stay above this ash/clay soil because it has little nutritive value and is just downright difficult to turn. Also, if I bring the ash up to the surface, it becomes dry and windblown with the next winds.

I would want to borrow & try a 4 or 5 or 6 bottom moldboard plow before purchase. Or see what a similar tractor pulls in your area - what does that fellow have to say about plowing with his equipment.

 

[Poopdeck Pappy]

First you need to decide how deep you need to plow; 6"-7"-8"

Then research how many moldboard bottoms (12"-14"-16") you can pull with your Mahindra.

In Texas, with the drought, you should consider low-till Chisel Plows before committing to moldboard plows. A Chisel Plow and a heavy Disc Harrow can be a fine combination.

HISTORY (edited for clarity):

Preventing Wind Erosion Was The Primary Objective Of Fred Hoeme, a Hooker, Oklahoma Farmer, When He Developed A Heavy-Duty Chisel Plow In 1933. Hoeme And His Sons Manufactured And Sold About 2000 Plows From Their Farmstead. In 1938, W. T. Graham Purchased The Manufacturing And Distribution Rights And Established Manufacturing In Amarillo, Texas. The Graham-Hoeme Plow, Marketed As "The Plow To Save The Plains", Was Sold Worldwide. This Chisel Plow Helped Control Wind Erosion During The Seven-Year Drought Of The 1950's, When About Half Of Great Plains Farmers Are Estimated To Have Owned Chisel Plows. The Graham-Hoeme style Chisel Plow was Produced For Over Sixty Years And is The Forerunner Of all today's Chisel Plows.

The American Society of Agricultural Engineers created a list of outstanding engineering achievements of the 20th Century and in the power and machinery division, the Graham-Hoeme chisel plow is listed with the farm tractor, self-propelled combine, International Harvester cotton picker and Ford 9N tractor, according to Nolan Clark, laboratory director.



LINK:

Brillion Chisel Plows

I grew up in southwest Oklahoma, and we had a Hoeme (pronounced "Hamey") chisel plow on our farm when I was a kid. I think it was a 9 or 11 shank model. I used to pull it with one of our old Minneapolis Moline tractors. A lot of other companies started making chisel plows and we bought a couple of larger ones, but we always kept that old "Hamey".

Seems like every farmer back then had one. I sure wish I still had it.

 

[bindian]

Steve,
You forgetting about my 4WD. Take your Oliver 880 and imagine it with 4WD. How many bottoms could you pull then? I can always sale a plow if I didn't like it. Use ground engagement impliments do seem to keep their value.
hugs, Brandi

Brandi, years ago I bought an Oliver 880 diesel - it was maybe a bit lighter than yours, but not much, I was given an old 3-14 pull-behind plow which I converted to 3ph. That tractor would pull 3-14's with the tips of the mouldboards barely peeking out of summertime clay. It would occasionally lose traction, but NOT power - tires were NOT loaded.

Unlike most specs on tractordata.com, that 880 lists plow sizes

TractorData.com Oliver 880 tractor information

As you can see, you should have no trouble with a 4-14, and with loaded and/or wheel weights you might get away with a 4-16, but that would depend on conditions of course - I don't think I'd take a chance on a larger plow, unless I could borrow one first.

HTH... Steve

 

[bindian]

Guys,
My Dad was raised in the Panhandle of Texas. The upper northeast county. They farmed 580 acres. They had huge chisel plows behind their Poppin' Jonnys and Massey Harris. But where I was raised, north of Houston, our neighbor grew corn right beside our house. My brother and I, for hours on end, would run behind Mr. Krause and his Farmall while plowing. I fell in love with smelling fresh dirt and watching the plow turn the sod over. That is why I am asking about turning plows.

I plan on retiring in the Paige-Lexington Texas area and playing in the dirt. Hay, corn or whatever I feel like. But I will turn it and disc it to my heart's contentment.

My disc has 24 inch pans, but has huge hubs. So it will dig in down to 8 inches. I guess I would shoot for multiple bottoms of 16 inch. So Steve has me leaning on first borrowing a 4-16 and try it. If a great deal comes along, I'll buy then try. I bought the 9 foot offset disc not knowing if my Mahidra would pull it, but it does.

Now in Texas to find drought, you gotta go west of Austin. Between Conroe and Paige, along Highway 290 and FM 105, the ponds that hold water good are full, while the leaky ponds are way low. Numerous ponds are another reason to retire in that area. I have a side business of excavating and mucking out ponds and building new ones. Like I said..................I love to play in the dirt.

Any other thoughts or pointers on turning plows? I'll all ears.
hugs, Brandi

First you need to decide how deep you need to plow; 6"-7"-8"

Then research how many moldboard bottoms (12"-14"-16") you can pull with your Mahindra.

In Texas, with the drought, you should consider low-till Chisel Plows before committing to moldboard plows. A Chisel Plow and a heavy Disc Harrow can be a fine combination.

HISTORY (edited for clarity):

Preventing Wind Erosion Was The Primary Objective Of Fred Hoeme, a Hooker, Oklahoma Farmer, When He Developed A Heavy-Duty Chisel Plow In 1933. Hoeme And His Sons Manufactured And Sold About 2000 Plows From Their Farmstead. In 1938, W. T. Graham Purchased The Manufacturing And Distribution Rights And Established Manufacturing In Amarillo, Texas. The Graham-Hoeme Plow, Marketed As "The Plow To Save The Plains", Was Sold Worldwide. This Chisel Plow Helped Control Wind Erosion During The Seven-Year Drought Of The 1950's, When About Half Of Great Plains Farmers Are Estimated To Have Owned Chisel Plows. The Graham-Hoeme style Chisel Plow was Produced For Over Sixty Years And is The Forerunner Of all today's Chisel Plows.

The American Society of Agricultural Engineers created a list of outstanding engineering achievements of the 20th Century and in the power and machinery division, the Graham-Hoeme chisel plow is listed with the farm tractor, self-propelled combine, International Harvester cotton picker and Ford 9N tractor, according to Nolan Clark, laboratory director.



LINK:

Brillion Chisel Plows

 

[mkreitler]

I would go with the 4-16's instead of the 5-12's the reason I say that is because the 5-12's =60" the 4-16's =64" so you gain 4" over the 5-12's. Years ago I had a FORD 4000 DIESEL '72 model bought it new with 38" rear tires 14-38 LOADED and one set of WEIGHT'S , with 52 HP on tap had no trouble pulling 4-16's at 5mph here in good old MISSOURI.

 

[bindian]

I would go with the 4-16's instead of the 5-12's the reason I say that is because the 5-12's =60" the 4-16's =64" so you gain 4" over the 5-12's. Years ago I had a FORD 4000 DIESEL '72 model bought it new with 38" rear tires 14-38 LOADED and one set of WEIGHT'S , with 52 HP on tap had no trouble pulling 4-16's at 5mph here in good old MISSOURI.

The Ford 4000, at most, weighed around 8200 pounds and, I think, was just 2WD. So with me loading my tires on top of 10,000 pounds of 4WD, 57 PTO horsepower, do you think it could pull 5-16s?
hugs, Brandi

 

[jeff9366]

FARMWITHJUNK advises:

A typical 2 X 12" plow will be moving dirt 24" wide and 6" deep. (144 square inches)

A 2 X 14" plow will be moving dirt 28" wide and 7" deep. (196 square inches)

A 2 X 16" plow will be moving dirt 32" wide and 8" deep. (256 square inches)

Also worth considering, 3 X12" plows cut 216 sq in as opposed to a 2 X 16" plow moving 256 sq in.....so THREE bottoms moves less dirt than TWO in that case.

Throw in for good measure the fact that OFTEN, the deeper you plow, the harder the soil, the harder the plow pulls.

Do you think it could pull 5-16s?

5 X 16 X 8 deep = 640 square inches = 4.444 square feet (WHEW!)

5 X 16 X 7 deep = 560 square inches = 3.888 square feet

Often, the deeper you plow, the harder the soil, the harder the plow pulls.

 

[bindian]

FARMWITHJUNK advises:

A typical 2 X 12" plow will be moving dirt 24" wide and 6" deep. (144 square inches)

A 2 X 14" plow will be moving dirt 28" wide and 7" deep. (196 square inches)

A 2 X 16" plow will be moving dirt 32" wide and 8" deep. (256 square inches)

Also worth considering, 3 X12" plows cut 216 sq in as opposed to a 2 X 16" plow moving 256 sq in.....so THREE bottoms moves less dirt than TWO in that case.

Throw in for good measure the fact that OFTEN, the deeper you plow, the harder the soil, the harder the plow pulls.




5 X 16 X 8 deep = 640 square inches = 4.444 square feet (WHEW!)

5 X 16 X 7 deep = 560 square inches = 3.888 square feet

Often, the deeper you plow, the harder the soil, the harder the plow pulls.

Thanks Jeff. I did read your post compilation of Mr Junk's plow threads.
hugs, Brandi

 

[motownbrowne]

The Ford 4000, at most, weighed around 8200 pounds and, I think, was just 2WD. So with me loading my tires on top of 10,000 pounds of 4WD, 57 PTO horsepower, do you think it could pull 5-16s?
hugs, Brandi

I think it'll really depend on the soil you're working. Somewhere between 4-14s and 5-16s, though that sounds like a lot to me. I don't think you'll run out of traction at 10k, but at some point you'll run out of horsepower.I think trying a plow or two before buying would be ideal.

 

[mkreitler]

What size rear tires on your tractor and what size is on the front? The rite size tires and with your weight it could be done it also depends on what type of soil you have there and if it is wet or dry when you plow,and how deep you are plowing. Also if your plows are of the SEMI-MOUNT or not plows that size and over is best if semi -mount so you have control over the front and rear end of the plow.The best way to find out is if someone around you has a set to try out. You may be surprised on the H.P.it may take. That being said you want to be in the sweet spot on the motor (R.P.M.).

 

[jeff9366]

Do you think it could pull 5-16s?

I have not seen one but somewhere there must be a reliable guide to horsepower per square inch or square foot of plow soil displacement.

 

[Poopdeck Pappy]

Brandi, it's been over 40 years since I've used a moldboard plow so take all this with a grain of salt.

We used a 3-bottom plow (I think they were 16" bottoms, but could have been 14") on an old Minneapolis Moline tractor that I can't remember the model number/name of. We had 2 of them exactly alike.

That old "Minney" would pull that 3-bottom moldboard just fine. I doubt if it could have handled a 4-bottom, but it did a fine job of turning the soil with the 3 bottom. (That's one of the keys with a moldboard plow - maintaining the correct speed to turn the soil over.) I think that old tractor was somewhere around 50 drawbar HP.

If I was in your position and if I couldn't borrow one first, I'd probably buy the first good deal I found on either a 5-bottom or 4-bottom. As you said in an earlier post, you can always sell it if it doesn't work out. And if you buy it right, you won't lose any money.

 

[Poopdeck Pappy]

One more thing. We pretty much quit using the moldboard plow when we got an offset disc, which you have.

The tractor would pull a much wider offset disc, and the offset disc did fine job of turning the soil over (not as deep as a moldboard, but sufficient) so we didn't use the moldboard plow much. The people on here who have only used a tandem disc and never used an offset have no idea how much better an offset plows than a tandem.

I used to plow a square quarter section (160 acres) of land with that old 3-bottom moldboard. A few trips around that field took a LONG time, and it was really depressing to see how little I had done in that time.

 

[OldMcDonald]

bindian, No advice on size, because it all depends on your ground and how deep you want to go. When I was young I could never imagine farming without a mouldboard plough, but I have not owned one since 1979.

I miss ploughing, but odd shaped fields and "islands" of uncultivatable land in Australia or cultivating amongst olive trees here needs something other than a mouldboard. As you say, the smell and the sight of a well ploughed piece of ground is something that sticks in the mind forever, and in Britain the various species of seagulls flying about two feet from your face. I did bury the odd one that went between the tractor and the plough, but as far as I know pulled them all out again alive. I still believe it is the only way to bring a grass ley back into cultivation - but then you need the right plough too, one made for turning over grass, not for ploughing up arable.

 

[bindian]

What size rear tires on your tractor and what size is on the front? The rite size tires and with your weight it could be done it also depends on what type of soil you have there and if it is wet or dry when you plow,and how deep you are plowing. Also if your plows are of the SEMI-MOUNT or not plows that size and over is best if semi -mount so you have control over the front and rear end of the plow.The best way to find out is if someone around you has a set to try out. You may be surprised on the H.P.it may take. That being said you want to be in the sweet spot on the motor (R.P.M.).

I have 9.5x24 R1s on front and 16.9x28 R1s on the rear. Loading these tires will add 1484 pounds to give me around 11,500 pounds.
hugs, Brandi