Plowing with a 30 Hp Compact tractor with or without FEL

[MasseyWV]

Put the 275# in the FEL bucket. Fill the rear tires with fluid add wheel weights.

jb

I agree. If you have room to manuver, the added weight of the FEL and a loaded bucket would provide much more weight and have the added benefit of having the FEL if you need it.

 

[N80]

Dump the the three point hitch plow and get a drawbar pull type. It will make life much easier!

Unless you only have half an acre to turn around in.

 

[Egon]

With two bottoms it don't take much room. But if'n your talking ten 22 in. bottoms then it's a little different!

 

[john_bud]

John,
When I load the bucket it wants to lift the rear of the machine, even with the loaded tires. This is why I thought removing the loader might be better for traction.

When the plow is set up correctly, it will pull the back of the tractor down. It can pull it down so hard that the front of the tractor will start to teeter totter up. That's why there are front weight bars on tractors - to counteract that tendency.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

With two bottoms it don't take much room. But if'n your talking ten 22 in. bottoms then it's a little different!

I've plowed both ways... With drawn plows and mounted. For anything less than 5 or 6 bottoms, I wouldn't use a drawn plow unless someone had a gun pointed to my head. And anything OVER 5 or 6, make mine a semi-mounted plow. Drawn plows require extra ballast on the tractor, which means more fuel and more compaction. They require more hp per bottom than a typical mounted plow, again, even MORE fuel. Since we aren't talking about a tractor that could pull "ten 22"s", instead talking about 2X12"'s, that has no real relevance in this case.

 

[rankrank1]

Definitely do not consider a tow type plow with a light-weight tractor. Most Vintage tractors had to weigh in excess of 6000lbs to pull 2-12's utilizing a tow type plow.
Then along comes Harry Ferguson in 1939 and develops the 3-point hitch system design still used today. Due to the brilliance of this design, his tractor weighed less than 3000 lbs, but could still pull 2-12 plows of 3 point hitch style. Why- because the hitch system provides downforce suction to the rear of the tractor providing traction so the extra 3000lbs of ballast weight that was needed with tow type plows is not needed.
Ferguson's sytem was brilliant during a time of steel rationing of WWII. 2 tractors could be made with the same 6000 lbs of steel instead of the previous 1 tractor.

 

[N80]

With two bottoms it don't take much room. But if'n your talking ten 22 in. bottoms then it's a little different!

I must have the tiniest food plots in the world. Its tight turning around in some of them even with a 3 pt hitch plow. No wonder the deer around here are so skinny.

Also, all this talk about plows and big tractor muscle got me to thinking. Back in the old days....real old days, it only took one HP to pull a drawn single bottom plow. Or maybe that should be one MP (mule power).

Or maybe two MP:

YouTube - Mules Plowing

 

[Farmwithjunk]

Definitely do not consider a tow type plow with a light-weight tractor. Most Vintage tractors had to weigh in excess of 6000lbs to pull 2-12's utilizing a tow type plow.
Then along comes Harry Ferguson in 1939 and develops the 3-point hitch system design still used today. Due to the brilliance of this design, his tractor weighed less than 3000 lbs, but could still pull 2-12 plows of 3 point hitch style. Why- because the hitch system provides downforce suction to the rear of the tractor providing traction so the extra 3000lbs of ballast weight that was needed with tow type plows is not needed.
Ferguson's sytem was brilliant during a time of steel rationing of WWII. 2 tractors could be made with the same 6000 lbs of steel instead of the previous 1 tractor.

Try 19TWENTY9. Ferguson Family Museum, Freshwater, Isle of Wight

 

[Egon]

excess of 6000lbs to pull 2-12's utilizing a tow type plow.

Plain Bull! Oh and should I add lack of knowledge! I know my knowledge is limited but this statement runs right in with it.


Dear me; Tell this to the thousands of farmers who pulled drawbar plows. With tractors of lessor weight!

Then tell it to Dobbin and his companion who pulled many a two bottom plow!

There seems to be a cult following of the Ferguson three point hitch for certain areas. Believe me this does not extend to the total farming world! Nor does the indestructible nature of the Ferguson tractor or the 8N etc.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

There seems to be a cult following of the Ferguson three point hitch for certain areas. Believe me this does not extend to the total farming world! Nor does the indestructible nature of the Ferguson tractor or the 8N etc.

So you think the ONLY tractors with 3-point and draft control are Fergusons and Ford N's? I do believe I've seen millions of Deere's, IH's, Molines' Olivers, Cases, McCormicks, Valtra's, JCB's, Duetz, Allis Chalmers, ect, also with 3-point and draft control. It's been virtually impossible to buy a FARM tractor WITHOUT a 3-point hitch in the last 35 or 40 years, short of those big 4WD's. Seems to be a relatively small "following" of antique collectors still using drawn plows, or giant 4WD's that use plows too big for being mounted, but the vast majority of your "total farming world" dropped the archaic drawn plow decades ago. Drawn plows under 4 bottoms went out of fashion half a century ago. I have been involved in farming my entire life (60 y o) and don't recall ever seeing a NEW drawn plow of less than 5 bottoms for well over 50 years. When the "Wheatland" or "standard tread" tractors of the 40's through early 70's went out of favor, there's been virtually no market for smaller (under 6 bottoms) drawn plows.

And about that "cult following in certain areas"..... FordN's sold well over 1/2 million units in the US alone. TO20,TO30,TO35, MF35,MF135 sold WORLDWIDE near 2 million units. The MF135 alone was produced in numbers over 225,000 in Detroit and 265,000 in England. That doesn't even account for the 135's built in France. At one time, 1 out of every 4 tractors sold in England was a 135 Massey Ferguson. Massey still sells tractors to this day that have very strong simularities to those 50 year old TO's. They sell in large numbers WORLDWIDE. Since their inception, the N series Ford and the TO series Fergusons were produced in greater volume that ANY tractor since. The TO Series Ferguson has been called the most immitated tractor on earth.

I'd say that's quite a "cult following in certain areas" without even bothering to include the rest of the models built by those 2 manufacturers. Apparently, "certain areas" must mean the planet earth

What a shame... If only we could go back in time and let Poor Harry Ferguson and poor Henry Ford know their tractors would never catch on beyond that insignificant "cult following", we could have saved them from building and selling millions of them.


Oh,

 

[john_bud]

Apparently, "certain areas" must mean the planet earth D

Actually, i was at the farm equipment show in Roswell, NM and there was quite a lot of off planet interest in the "N" series and the early hundreds......






jb

 

[Barneyhunts]

Thanks Everyone! This is a neat site - lots of interesting and educational perspective. Looks like it's going to be a while B4 I can plow, as everytime the mud starts to dry out it rains again. Our weatherman said March in NE Pa. was the wettest recorded and April has started out wet. I'm making the best of it though, by laying out my food plots and getting my seed and fertilizer (sticker shock! ). I'll get my lime when I need it. Also cutting firewood in areas that are growing a little too big for the critters and making brudhpiles for the rabbits and grouse.
Thanks again for the input!
Barney

PS Any thoughts on whether it's better to apply lime B4 I plow or afterward?

 

[Soundguy]

I agree about the larger plows 'wagging the dog'. I don't really see that as a mechanical flaw though.. it is a user error.. or rather choice. IE.. using too much (mounted) plow for a machine.

Using the correct equipment for the task at hand yeilds the best results. Still.. sometimes you make due with what you have and just get er' done, front wheels inthe air or not!

soundguy

That works UNTIL....I've been on a few old Fergies, N's, and the like, with a plow that's just a little too big for the conditions, and then, draft control and/or 3-point hitches and all it wonders just aren't up to the challenge. Instead of stopping the tractor cold in it's tracks like "too big of a drawn plow" would do, too much mounted plow will make that tractor dig for traction even to the point where the front end starts to climb.

The smaller the tractor, naturally, the easier it is to overload, but the phenomenon isn't limited to small tractors.

Back when I had my 5000 Ford, after it was turbo-ed, I tried to pull a 5X14" mounted plow with it. Long story short, the front wheels didn't spend a lot of time on the ground. It was simply too much plow for the tractor, in spite of 3-point hitch, 100 hp, and all sorts of front weights. I went back to 4X14" 's and plowed 1 gear higher with better results.

Too much is still too much, no matter what sort of mechanical advantage you're dealing with. Take draft control out of the equasion and the problems are amplified.




Barney, Without the aid of draft control, it's much easier to exceed the tractors capabilities in certain plowing conditions. While using a gauge wheel on a mounted plow, the plows "suck" (downward pull) is somewhat negated as a tractive advantage. You're carrying that weight/downward force of the plow on the gauge wheel in place of on the rear of the tractor. At that point, you have a "drawn plow" that is attached to the draft arms instead of the drawbar. Now you can see why Harry Fergusons invention was such a revolutionary concept and a giant step forward for heavy draft loads on small tractors.

When plowing, the 3-point hitch system is somewhat less effective without the assistance of draft control. Then you're back to the stone age of mechinized farming with a simple drawn plow. Then you rely on shear weight and brute HP to pull a plow.

In the end, weight is weight. Be it in the form of a front loader or suitcase weights, you probably won't see significant difference.

And one more thought. If the plow has even a hint of nose down attitude, it will tend to dive, causing the tractors front end lift. Even with the gauge wheel to resist the diving, you're creating significant resistance to forward motion with the plow being nose down. Try lengthening the top link ever-so-slightly to see if that helps. When a 3-point mounted plow is adjusted PERFECTLY, and plowing conditions are right, the top link is ALMOST "slack". The more compression applied to the top link, the more likely the draft control is overloaded, or the LACK OF draft control is exagerated.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

I agree about the larger plows 'wagging the dog'. I don't really see that as a mechanical flaw though.. it is a user error.. or rather choice. IE.. using too much (mounted) plow for a machine.

Using the correct equipment for the task at hand yeilds the best results. Still.. sometimes you make due with what you have and just get er' done, front wheels inthe air or not!

soundguy

Never was even a thought that using too much plow for the conditions as a "mechanical flaw". It IS however, one of the pitfalls of using tractors that are marginally too small for the task at hand VS implements that are too big for the tractor at hand. Simply a good arguement for MORE POWER!

 

[Egon]

Apply the lime as soon as you can as it may take some time to take effect.

 

[Soundguy]

Never was even a thought that using too much plow for the conditions as a "mechanical flaw". It IS however, one of the pitfalls of using tractors that are marginally too small for the task at hand VS implements that are too big for the tractor at hand. Simply a good arguement for MORE POWER!

For sure agree... I'd much rather have surplus hp for my implements.

I'm looking at a ford or dearborn ( both ) 3 bottom plow that has been setting in a neighbors pasture for? 10ys foing nothing.. trying to get him to sell it to me.

While my ford 951/850 would probably pull it fine.. I have this odd hankering to hitch the 5000 up to it...

soundguy

 

[Farmwithjunk]

For sure agree... I'd much rather have surplus hp for my implements.

I'm looking at a ford or dearborn ( both ) 3 bottom plow that has been setting in a neighbors pasture for? 10ys foing nothing.. trying to get him to sell it to me.

While my ford 951/850 would probably pull it fine.. I have this odd hankering to hitch the 5000 up to it...

soundguy

Especially with your Florida sand/soil, your 5000 should be able to pull that plow in road gear Even before I started messing with the M&W turbo kit, the 5000 I had would run with 4X14"'s in the clay we have here.

 

[Soundguy]

Especially with your Florida sand/soil, your 5000 should be able to pull that plow in road gear Even before I started messing with the M&W turbo kit, the 5000 I had would run with 4X14"'s in the clay we have here.

Should make quick work of a food plot. of course I already have a 10-1.. but what fun is that if i can get that old 3-bottom..

soundguy

 

[HarryVanderpool]

Soil condition and proper adjustment of the plow seem to be the key factors for me.
My 42 Ford 2N plows very nicely with a Howse single 14".
We have Silty basalt clay loam..(RED)
Even in a given field the soil varies enough that the tractor will work very hard in one zone and purr along in another.
I don't recall my front wheels ever getting light while plowing.
I have hit hardpan spots and had the tires claw for traction a bit.
But set the plow up just the tiniest bit out of whack and you are in for a fight.
Moisture is a biggy!

 

[flusher]

I've plowed both ways... With drawn plows and mounted. For anything less than 5 or 6 bottoms, I wouldn't use a drawn plow unless someone had a gun pointed to my head. And anything OVER 5 or 6, make mine a semi-mounted plow. Drawn plows require extra ballast on the tractor, which means more fuel and more compaction. They require more hp per bottom than a typical mounted plow, again, even MORE fuel. Since we aren't talking about a tractor that could pull "ten 22"s", instead talking about 2X12"'s, that has no real relevance in this case.

Now that I'm in the "Green Acres" phase of my life (I'm 66), I've decided to go haying (on 7 of my 10 acres). Got the plow a few months ago (an IH #8 Little Genius 2-14 plow, circa 1940)

and, a few weeks ago, the tractor to pull it (a new Mahindra 5525, 55 hp engine, 45 hp pto, probably around 40-45 hp on the drawbar and around 7000 lb with the FEL attached)

The tractor has draft control, like most modern UTs, but that won't help me with this plow. However, there's a spring-loaded trip mechanism on the hitch that pops the plow off the drawbar if it starts to get stuck big time. Better than nothing.

I've seen videos on YouTube of folks plowing with type of equipment at tractor meets and it looks like a lota fun.

Don't know how may furrows I'll have to plow to get proficient with this baby, but I have the instruction manual and a lot of time to practice.

If the front end comes up, I figure I can always scoop 1.5 tons of dirt into the bucket to hold it down.

The local antique tractor club is having a meet later in April. Hope to pick the brains of some of the old timers there.