Plowing with a Compact

[looch]

Oh dear, here we go.

I'll say that I agree whole-heartedly with Doc. Anyone who doesn't agree on something which at least I (and I hope others) think is elementary probably won't be convinced by a series of heated posts, so let's not go there again.

I wouldn't doubt that there are farmers who use them for their day-to-day operations. So please don't doubt that are at least an equal amount of farmers who would scoff at the same idea.

 

[cowboydoc]

I still stand behind my post that these aren't a real tractor in my opinion. In your opinion they very well may be. I have a very hard time believing that anyone could mow and bale 75-100 acres though with a compact. First of all it would take you a week to pull a sickle mower with a compact as there is no way you could pull any kind of a mower conditioner with a compact tractor. Most of the sickle bars are 7'. You do the math driving that slow with a sickle bar mower how fast you can cut hay. It takes me a day to cut 15 acres of hay with a 14' John Deere rotarty mower conditioner. You could rake without any problem and you could pull a small square baler but not very fast.

But that aside these CUT's don't have most of the options that a larger tractor has. Namely very few of them have draft control. You can't run planters, etc. on them either.

Now with that aside yes you can take care of mowing, small plowing and discing jobs, loader jobs, landscape, dirt moving, etc. etc. but they aren't an ag tractor and you can't go out and take care of a 160 acre farm if you're planting crops, etc. Even the mere fact of having to set the wheels for different row crops is impossible to do on most compact tractors.

When I say they aren't a real tractor I mean they aren't a real crop production tractor. Their design wasn't one to go out and plow all day with or disc, etc. I don't know of anyone that's going to go out and buy a compact tractor to specifically farm with. Most people buy compact to take care of a small acreage and fit all kinds of time saving devices to them to do this like 4 in 1 buckets, rototillers, snow blowers, mid mount mowers, etc. etc. You buy an ag. tractor to hook up a disc, plow, planter, baler, etc. You certainly could take care of 5 acres, 10 acres, etc. if you had all day to do it! About three years ago I needed to plow some ground to plant some hay. I had that Massey Super 90 at the time. The most I could pull was a three bottom plow and it took me two and a half days to plow 25 acres. There were spaces as well that I couldn't get that three bottom plow through either.

Don't take offense to my posts. It doesn't bother me that you think a compact tractor is a real ag tractor. It's just my opinion about them. If someone wants to do alot of farming they really should have a row crop tractor not a compact tractor.

 

[cowboydoc]

Well said Paul. Blessed I was not with the right choice of words. I'm way too blunt most of the time. I apologize if my comments offended anyone it's just my opinion.

 

[jhburke]

Besides money the biggest thing to consider is how much time will be needed to do the job. You can move dirt with a hand trowel, but if you have a yard of dirt nicer to have a shovel. If 5 yards of dirt it is even nicer to have a tractor w/FEL.

 

[Ledgemere Farm]

I agree with cowboydoc. Every farmer I know that EVEN HAS a compact, uses them for light farm chores like running a circular saw or pulling a hay tedder. I would love to see a compact hook up to a 9' disc mower. That said, I like compacts and use mine heavilly.

 

[Ledgemere Farm]

Yes. It is a really heavy offset disc. My brother-in-law had a 4430 that, when equipped with duals, worked great. Unfortunately, the tractor was a piece of garbage and he got rid of it. He has been making do with the 4020 until last year when he got the 4320. 4320 kicks butt.

 

[jbs]

Well guys looks like we are going down the gear vs hydro road again.

I dont believe anyone is arguing the fact if you had a 1000 acres of wheat that you would jump in your compact and go to work
The point was if you spend plus or minus 20 grand for a compact it should be capable of performing most of the task of a larger tractor,on a smaller scale of course.
I fail to see why this would invoke such hostile responses?

 

[EdKing]

I also agree with CowboyDoc. While compacts can do a lot of work, they are not an Ag tractor. I would plow a garden with my compact, mow, move dirt, but for serious plowing, planting, or hay production a compact is just to light for the work.

 

[JerryG]

<font color=blue>The compacts were never made to do a "real" tractors work. Contrary to popular belief these CUT's aren't real tractors.</font color=blue>

They are tractors. Tractors for a smaller scale. A farmer that has a Cat Challenger or a John Deere track tractor or a Case Quadtrack might say that a 100-horse tractor is not a real tractor either. He wouldn’t think about spending all day in the field with anything smaller. It is all on a scale of acreage or job size as to the size of TRACTOR you need.

 

[PaulInMi]

Woodyed,

In response to your original question, I have a Kubota L3000(32hp) w/turf tires that i pull a 2-16" behind. It does fine in my garden that has been worked for years, not so good at breaking new ground. My manual recomends however, that I only pull a 2-12" or a 1-16". I got a good deal on the plow though, so i make do.

Hope that helps.

Paul

 

[Robert_in_NY]

Even the large crop farmers have smaller tractors in the 90-100 hp range for chore tractors. They may also have a compact tractor for mowing their yard but that would be all it is for. If you have 20 acres you want to maintain and possibly work as a small farm a compact tractor will get by. However if you want to work more then 20 acres a utility tractor is better suited unless you want it to mow your yard with then a compact gets consideration. In a perfect world everyone would own 20 tractors for every possible job. I know a lot of vegetable farms run 50-100 hp tractors and a compact tractor would not work there because it can't handle the sprayers. Even in vineyards and orchards the bare minimum anyone would want for a sprayer is 50hp. All tractors serve what they were intended to do but some people do think that a compact can do anything. This should not get people upset as basicly for what this post originally started out as a utility tractor is better suited for his task. A compact can do it but why abuse a tractor you want to last a long time?

 

[woodyed]

Paul,
Thanks for your reply on what plow sizes you use with your L3000. Really appreciate it and I hope you have good luck with your tractor.

Robert & Cowboydoc,
I agree entirely with you both when you say that a farmer who has a dairy farm or a crop enterprise and has quite a few acres that he works, definitely needs a large HP utility/agricultural tractor to utilize the larger impliments, and get his work done in a reasonable amount of time and effort. At the same time, you have to realize that their are a fair number of people who are "gentlemen farmers" or part time farmers who don't really make their entire living off their farm, but still do most of the same chores with their compact tractors that their "full time farmer" neighbors do. These farmers with smaller enterprises and acreages also usually aren't in any real hurry to get their haying, plowing, mowing done anyway, so they are content with the extra time it's going to take them to do it with their compact tractors and smaller impliments. Besides, they are probably happier anyway with the extra "seat" time that it gives them. I don't know if either of you 2 gentlemen have a compact tractor or not, but if you don't, I think you might be amazed at what they can do. You might even start calling them "real tractors" after that. No offense gentlemen, I agree with much of what you say, but I just want you to know and realize that compact tractors are good for more than just mowing lawns and moving one dirt pile to another. You might not want to believe this, but it's true.

 

[Kodiak]

Your analogy of "gentleman farmers" or part time farmers, didn't mention the fact that crops have a schedule all their own, even hay. When its time to harvest its time to harvest. Especially if your up against a short window of weather. Factor in those who are trying to work around their normal work schedules, and anything that saves time can be very precious.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Weight, horsepower, and tire slippage are the main factors in how large a plow you can pull. We farmed on a small scale back in the 70's using a 52-hp 4600 Ford, which is still running strong, and pulled 3 16" plows with it. This tractor is HEAVY for it's power rating and the tires would still slip quite a lot. This is why most tractors are now 4wd.

It is possible to farm 80-100 acres using a small tractor. My father did that in the 60's using a small Ford tractor. The problem is time. It takes a long time to break and disk a 50 acre field using 2 14" plows and a 6' to 8' disk. The 4600 seemed huge when we got it.

We did break one 30-acre field that hadn't been plowed for at least 30 years and had to back off one gear on the 4600. It still would pull so hard the muffler glowed red in daylight. That field had to be disked three times before planting.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

No one said that a compact can not do it but it is like trying to pound a nail with a sheet of paper. It might be done but it is going to take a lot of time and effort to get it done and the job will not be as good as if you had the proper tools. Seat time is something that people who don't use tractors much enjoy. Have you ever spent 14 hours a day for a week straight working fields to be able to plant before the next spring rain. If so you will realize seat time is overrated. I also have experience with a compact as my neighbor who I use to work for has a 1920 that I still burrow from time to time if I need something light or small to chop inside of pens. He uses it on his small vineyard and orchard and has a small sprayer that on his own admission is still too big for the tractor but it gets the job done so he uses it still. He doesn't do any more vegetables as he is getting quite old but he is the only one I know that uses a compact for their small farm. Most everyone else uses TNF's or 5020N's for their orchards and vineyards. When all is said and done a compact tractor will be dead if you try to do any amount of tillage work with it for any amount of time. Even small scale farmers have time frames to get their spraying done or their planting done. What good is cutting 50 acres of hay if you can not get it off the ground before the next rain? Can a compact do it? Yes. Should a compact do it? NO. Now a question for you, have you ever used a tractor for tillage work that was designed for it? If so there would be no debate over this.

 

[JohnMiller3]

<font color=blue>...it is like trying to pound a nail with a sheet of paper... Seat time is something that people who don't use tractors much enjoy. Have you ever spent 14 hours a day for a week straight working... If so you will realize seat time is overrated...</font color=blue>

Robert... nicely said... /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

Depending on whose eyes you're viewing from... most of the compact guys look at using their compact tractors as a form of recreation that is fun…, on the other hand a farmer looks at using his utility tractor as a necessary tool to perform work…

 

[woodyed]

"No one said that a compact can not do it but it is like trying to pound a nail with a sheet of paper. It might be done but it is going to take a lot of time and effort to get it done and the job will not be as good as if you had the proper tools".

Robert,
Your anology is slightly exaggerated to say the least, but it seems that it does reflect your opinions concerning what compacts are good for or can do. You will notice in all my posts, I have agreed with you regarding the fact that it will take more time to do a task with a compact compared as to doing it with a utility/agricultural tractor. I don't agree with your statement about the job done being as good though. But that's a matter of personal opinion.

"Now a question for you, have you ever used a tractor for tillage work that was designed for it? If so there would be no debate over this".

To answer yor question, yes. Plowed about 60 acres with a Kubota M9000 and a 4 bottom. It was a snap and I'll readily admit that were times I wished that could have had this tractor on my place to do whatever I was doing. In your above statement you mention the word "debate". I'm not debating anything with you, in fact I agree with much of what you said. All I'm saying is that the person should match the tractor and implements he needs, with the jobs he needs to do and the amount of time and effort he wishes to put into it, and for many people making this decision, the compact tractor will suffice and be the reasonable choice.

 

[JimC]

Number one rule.
Use the proper size tool for the job.

We use a 2955 JD 85 PTO HP for our 27 acres,
and a BX2200 Kubota for my 1.4 acres.

I farm my garden, 30X75 ft at my home with the BX2200
and use small plows (several of them modified from other equipment), a disk from a Ford 2000, a modified box blade (a 6' cut down to 4'), a landscape rake from my old 9N, and let my son play with the JD.

Hard to say who has the most fun, but I believe I do, cause the JD seemed like a lot of hot sweaty work.

JimC

 

[Worksmart]

cowboydoc - I think I picked up on what you really meant when you said CUTs aren't "real" tractors in your post of 7/30. You then said in your post of 7/31 they aren't "ag" tractors. "Real" and "Ag" are being used interchangeably.

I didn't agree with you when you said "real." Of course they're "real" tractors......4 lugged tires, hydraulics, rear hitch...etc/w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif. I totally agree when you say they aren't "ag" tractors. It's just a matter of semantics. C

 

[cowboydoc]

Woodyed,
I do have a JD 4600 tractor and have been around tractors my whole life. If you are truly a gentelman farmer and you are baling hay, doing plowing, discing, planting, spraying etc. at a minimum you should have a utility tractor. Even on a small acreage if you're running big equipment and farming the ground get a utility tractor. Yes compacts are wonderful tractors and I love mine and wouldn't want to be without it. But it won't do half the work or run half the implements that either my 4020 or my 4430 will. You have to find the right tractor for what you are doing. A compact tractor is just too light and too underpowered for most farming jobs even if you are just a gentelman farmer. Can you do it, sometimes yes, but at what cost? How much is your safety and the longevity of your tractor worth. Now again though you have to define what your gentlman farmer status is. Are you farming 10 acres or a 100 acres. Only 10 acres yes a compact is probably fine a 100 acres though is a different story if you're truly farming it.

My main reason for the post is that most people coming here are looking for information on tractors. I'm not going to steer someone the wrong way and let them think that a compact tractor is a viable alternative for working around the barns and house and then go out and farm with it. Way too often in these posts I see guys underbuying for their needs. Yes a compact tractor is a WONDERFUL little machine but it's not a farm tractor. I've seen the accidents people can get in with too much implement for their tractors and other safety issues and it's not pretty. Not to mention the wear and tear on a tractor.

Why wouldn't you advocate someone who is doing small scale farming to get a utility tractor? With the utility tractor you do truly have a small scale ag/row crop tractor. You get the different controls, weight, size, hydraulics, torque, and ability to do the ag. jobs that a compact tractor doesn't have. They are about the same price as the lower end utility tractors.

Like has been pointed out there are alot of things that you can do with these compacts that they weren't made to do. Just because you can do it though doesn't mean that it's right.

Lastly I would like to say that I was wrong in my choice of words by saying that a compact isn't a "real" tractor. They are real tractors but they aren't appropriate in my opinion if one of your primary uses is farming.