Plumbing Drain Help!

[Dennisfly]

I noticed a small stain on the family room ceiling. The upstairs bathroom is located above and the stain is directly aligned with the shower drain in one axis and about 5 feet from it in the other axis. Directly above the stain is a closet that is dry. The stain enlarged slightly after the shower was used. My theory is that the shower drain may be leaking where the pipe attaches to the shower pan and then running down the outside of the pipe to a drip point 5 feet away. The pan is fiberglass and the pipe is PVC. The house is 24 years old and this just started.

The pipe attaches to the pan with a metal flange and a rubber gasket between the flange and pipe visable from above (see picture). There doesn't appear to be any way to remove the flange or gasket from above. There is no accommodation for a spanner wrench or anything.

Any one have any ideas if this is fixable without cutting a hole in my familyroom ceiling?

 

[Rocksprings]

Try this, alot of good information on it.

DIY Chatroom - DIY Home Improvement Forum

 

[OKnewguy]

Some of these are done just like the drain on your kitchen sink, from below. You might need to cut out a section of the ceiling to figure out what is going on. Kind of like this
Shop KOHLER Polished Chrome Strainer Shower Drain at Lowes.com
Good luck, Dave

 

[RobertBrown]

It may be that fixing it below is the easiest way to go.
Is the ceiling textured?
If you don't stop using the shower, you may have to replace the ceiling anyway.
If the ceiling is textured, matching that back could be be hard, depending on what type you have. If it's not, just cut it out rather than pulling up the shower.
You may have a leak between the valve and the shower head. If the leak is here it would only show up when the shower is being used.

 

[KYErik]

How about drying everything off good and trying to run a bead of silicone caulk around the joint between the fiberglass and the metal part in the pic.

It should only take about 30 min and it might be worth a try before tearing into the ceiling.

 

[Travelover]

I had a shower leak and I accessed the area by cutting out 4" diameter holes in the drywall in my first floor ceiling. It was easy to patch back in the plugs that I took out.

I bought the hole saw set at Harbor Freight for a few bucks. Doesn't take much to cut drywall.

 

[kenmac]

B-4 cutting the ceiling. I would try plumbers puddy or silicone where the hole is cut in the fiberglass & where the PVC comes through the rubber seal

 

[CurlyDave]

I had a similar problem with a shower, and silicone made the best repair, but did not last more than a few months, at most, before needing to be re-done.

I really needed to clean the old surfaces thoroughly before putting the silicone on, and then re-clean before the next try.

I think your best bet is a new shower drain and new drain pipe and trap.

 

[ultrarunner]

Just did one last year at my Mom's place.

I bought a 12x12 access plate at home depot and cut the corresponding hole in the Sheetrock below the shower spud.

The old one just fell apart in my hand... it look to be pot metal.

Put in a new brass one and it has been fine since.

At first she didn't like the idea of the access plate... now she doesn't even notice and it is painted to match...

 

[Kays Supply]

I don't want to be a party pooper BUT, just to get you ready, if the worst case happens. That appears to be a molded in drain. That is a push tight gasket. If the molded in drain has craacked, it is a tear out and replace the base. No matter what it is, a bottom assault will be the best attack.

 

[billybobjimmyjoejack]

You might be able to caulk around the drain as suggested earlier, if the pan is cracked at the drain you might be able to caulk it from underneath.
If you decide to try the caulking route I would not use any of the silicone based caulks. I have not used silicone caulking in years instead I use polyurethane caulking. I think you get far better adhesion and the elasticity rate seems to be higher. I like the Geocel 3300 for most applications. Here is a link. home

 

[EddieWalker]

I don't want to be a party pooper BUT, just to get you ready, if the worst case happens. That appears to be a molded in drain. That is a push tight gasket. If the molded in drain has craacked, it is a tear out and replace the base. No matter what it is, a bottom assault will be the best attack.

Without seeing it, I have my doubts that you can fix it from below. Most of those things done just come loose. There really isn't anything to tighten other then the trap, and if it was built right, the trap is glued together, not threaded.

You are also assuming that it's the drain. In quite a few shower repairs that I've done, I've found that the problem is often where the shower walls and the pan come together. I've also seen where the grout in the tile is cracked and the water is coming through the tile, down the inside of the wall, then traveling along the floor joists, some pipes, some wiries or just along the the top of the sheetrock until it becomes visable.

If it is the drain, you might get lucky and be able to remove the pipes and drain fittings. Or you might not, and have to replace the entire pan. If you take out the pan, you pretty much have to redo the entire shower so you don't create another issue down the road.

Eddie

 

[Dennisfly]

Thank you all for your input. I did go to the DIY site as sugguested by Rocksprings and I'm smarter now!

It is a small seep and I have the luxury of being able to use another shower while I troubleshoot/fix this one.

I think I will pour a couple of buckets of water down the drain and see if it leaks. This will eliminate the shower head feed plumbing and tiled walls as sources of the leak. If it leaks during this test, I'll try sealing the pipe to flange with sealant/caulk from above.

Failing success doing the above, I'll be cutting a hole in the ceiling to replace the flange, nut, and gasket or pulling the pan and redoing the whole shower including the tiled wall depending on what I find.

 

[JB4310]

You are also assuming that it's the drain. In quite a few shower repairs that I've done, I've found that the problem is often where the shower walls and the pan come together. I've also seen where the grout in the tile is cracked and the water is coming through the tile, down the inside of the wall, then traveling along the floor joists, some pipes, some wiries or just along the the top of the sheetrock until it becomes visable.
Eddie

Exactly what I wanted to say! It may very well be the drain in this case. it does look a little sketchy from what I'm use to seeing, but....
Almost every-time someone directs me to find the cause of a leak/stain in a ceiling under a bathroom, it's caused by the perimeter seal on the tub, either at the wall /tile joint or the tube/floor joint.

Leaking plumbing vent stack on the roof can also be the culprit, even on the first floor but those leaks usually show up on the second floor ceiling.

Or if you have 3 teenagers, and their bathroom is right above the dining room, anything goes!!! Just make sure you have a can of Kilz on hand. They are always overflowing the toilet or forgetting which side of the tub the shower curtain goes :confused2: Don't ask :laughing:

JB

 

[Fixemall]

I had an almost identical problem with one of my rentals...with the added bonus of the tenant not wanting anyone tearing the place up. I carefully cut an exact square in the ceiling and cut out the existing glued in drain with a hole saw and replaced it with a double gasketed one that was original equipment from a corner shower stall, I then carefully glued a face grate from a bathroom ceiling fan in the hole I cut in the ceiling. A year later...no issues or complaints and the grate fits flush and is hardly visible...as a bonus I have easy future access if another problem arises, no dust, no mess and no mold.

 

[Dennisfly]

Follow up - It was a bad seal where the supply valve stem goes through the tiled wall. They left a larger hole than necessary in the wall and the trim piece seal had nothing to seat against. They glued a foam seal that had come lose and allowed the leak. I installed some backing and resealed the trim piece and the problem is solved

 

[Travelover]

Good job figuring it out. Aren't you glad that you didn't rip out the ceiling below? :thumbsup:

 

[JB4310]

Good to hear, thanks for the follow up.

I was just thinking about this thread the other day, I was in the kitchen and heard water dripping on the floor near the fridge, I thought it must be the ice maker acting up again. Walked over to the fridge and water was pouring on my head thru a light fixture :confused2:

One of the kids didn't have the shower curtain closed all the way, there was just a little puddle on the bathroom floor, but it found a way to drain out near the cove.

Luckily there are recessed lights in the kitchen ceiling, so the water had a way to get off the top of the ceiling without even leaving a stain, so far.

JB.

 

[Dennisfly]

JB4310

Reminds me of a place I went to eat. It was an old house that had been converted to a restaurant and we were on the front porch which had been enclosed. Nothing fancy and the workmanship was substandard but the food was great. A thunderstorm came up and water started pouring out of the ceiling light fixture. Amazingly, the light remained illuminated! Made me nervous though.

 

[JB4310]

JB4310

Reminds me of a place I went to eat. It was an old house that had been converted to a restaurant and we were on the front porch which had been enclosed. Nothing fancy and the workmanship was substandard but the food was great. A thunderstorm came up and water started pouring out of the ceiling light fixture. Amazingly, the light remained illuminated! Made me nervous though.

I've seen it alot. And other water + electricity combinations that has surprised me, how tolerant of water, electricity is.

JB