Pole Barn advice

[SpringHollow]

A 40' span is huge. You might consider beefing up the trusses and suspending a beam in the middle, doing either a 20' span covering half the barn or using 3 rollers and I-beams to support a 40' beam. I did a 22' span rolling gantry crane - I had to gusset and weld on 4' to my 20' long 10" deep I-beams. I have lifted 3000 lbs or so in the middle of that span. I would have preferred stronger I-beams but I used what i had gotten cheap.

My calculations showed 4000 lbs in the middle would deflect my I-beams beam by 3/4". The same beams would deflect by over 1" with 1000 lbs in the middle of a 40 foot span. If i were using 20' beams for that, i would be tempted to put the full 20' length in the middle and gusset/weld 10' onto each end where the stresses are less.

Ken

 

[mx842]

A 40' span is huge. You might consider beefing up the trusses and suspending a beam in the middle, doing either a 20' span covering half the barn or using 3 rollers and I-beams to support a 40' beam. I did a 22' span rolling gantry crane - I had to gusset and weld on 4' to my 20' long 10" deep I-beams. I have lifted 3000 lbs or so in the middle of that span. I would have preferred stronger I-beams but I used what i had gotten cheap.

My calculations showed 4000 lbs in the middle would deflect my I-beams beam by 3/4". The same beams would deflect by over 1" with 1000 lbs in the middle of a 40 foot span. If i were using 20' beams for that, i would be tempted to put the full 20' length in the middle and gusset/weld 10' onto each end where the stresses are less.

Ken

A permanent support beam in the middle is out of the question because of space and also it would prohibit me railing my parts all the way through. I could however use one or two of those adjustable steel post I saw at Lowes the other day. They are 4" round post with a big threaded rod in the center welded to foot plates on both ends where you can adjust it to what ever height you need. I was thinking this would be a good alternative method if I ever needed to haul something, say like over 500 lbs from one end to another. I might have to have 2 of them, one to put in place somewhere near the middle and once the load gets to that point place the other one behind the load and continue on. Also I was thinking about maybe a rolling cart I could somewhat support some of the load on as it rolls through. One thing to keep in mind is that this is not the main purpose of the rail. It is more or less mainly used to just lift parts or hold in place parts while I weld or measure as I work on my many projects. You could call it an extra hand if you like. In my old shop where the hoist used to live it was mainly used to lift the ends of long pieces of stock we were cutting off with the band saw, chop saw, or plasma cutter. I have bar stock rollers but you can never get them adjusted just right for some material and are a real pain sometimes when you are working by yourself.

I do like the thought of the 20' section in the middle like you suggested. I had not considered that but now that you mentioned it it makes a lot of sense and I have to cut two pieces anyway so one or two more cuts wont hurt. Would you solid weld the connections? I was thinking that would not be the best Idea because of the difference in stress factors between the actual welds and the beam itself. I was thinking about welding a thick piece of flat plate on the top and bottom the same width as the beam. I have a piece of 1 1/4" thick plate I was going to cut to fit for this and I think I have more than enough to do two splices. In the middle I was going to clamp the beam between two pieces of 1/2" plate the same width as the beam and thru bolt them with 1/2" bolts probably at least 4 maybe 6 on each side of the splice.

I was talking to an old guy about this an he said not to solid weld the connection and although he seemed to know what he was talking about everybody has their own opinions and is the reason I asked this here because I want to find the opinions that work best for what I have on the work bench. I'm not an iron worker more like a jack of all trades and sometimes that can get you into trouble.:laughing: I am also not a structural engineer and I really suck at math and is the reason like to get different opinions from as many people as I can.

Do you know how much more support if any adding a riser on top at the middle of the section and bracing it back to both ends of the beam where they sit on the headers will provide. It seems to me this would greatly improve the strength of the overall system provided I build it out of the proper material. I realize this would have to be added after the truss system has been put in place and could be bolted or welded in place once the roof is on.

Sorry again OP for the post hyjack but thank you so much for asking your question.

 

[dusty3030]

FWIW we built a 40x80 steel building, 14' at the eaves this past August.
20x40 are fully enlclosed, insulated, with a 10x10 roll up door and one walk door. The other 60x40 has a backwall but no front wall or side wall. That area is all 6" of crushed limestone gravel.
We had to have a meter moved and went ahead and buried all the electrical to the new building as well as to an older steel building on the property.
We had the road extended to the new building.
We hired out everything but demolition of two buildings that were in the way.
Total cost was $37,000. We hired a local contractor to build the building and his quote was the best. We hired the electrician we wanted. It was turn key and they cleaned up and put us in business.
The building we got came from the same place that quoted us almost $3 a square foot more than the local contractor.
We spent a lot of hours getting quotes and meeting with contractors that paid off for us in money and in satisfaction with the project.

Also, it doesn't add much of anything to the cost to build it taller. It's worth it to go taller than you anticipate. I can stack round bales three high and still have plenty of clearance.

 

[SpringHollow]

I have also been told skip welding is better, that it is less likely to crack at the weld.

If you built a rolling bridge crane like mine, you could still cover the whole barn with 3 beams. My cross beam is suspended below the I-beams by trolleys (there are lots of ways that attachment can be done). The I-beams are suspended from reinforced trusses.

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/build-yourself/152193-gantry-barn.html

Ken

 

[AJE]

Just an update... paperwork on 30x48x10 building is signed, just waiting on the yard to dry up a bit. I got the price locked in before it can go up too much though!

I'll have a lot of work to do once it's up, because I'm doing everything else myself. I've got to dig a trench and run a water line, electricity, and whatever else I need (only want to dig once!). Any suggestions? I want an extra electric line from the house specifically to switch exterior lights on or off from the house, and I was thinking maybe a cable TV line or something as well. Anything else?

 

[Pixguy]

Any suggestions? I want an extra electric line from the house specifically to switch exterior lights on or off from the house, and I was thinking maybe a cable TV line or something as well. Anything else?

I personally would run Cat5 for phone and or internet, or at least an extra conduit chase where you can run what you need years from now. :2cents:

 

[fowllife]

Conduit and water lines are cheap, run some extra's. I would run a 2" for the electriacl service to the barn (or bigger depending on how many amp sevice) a pair of 3/4" or 1" water line, and several 3/4" or 1" conduits. Conduit is so cheap in relation to digging another trench down the road. Think about what you may want out there, then add a couple more.

 

[AJE]

I personally would run Cat5 for phone and or internet, or at least an extra conduit chase where you can run what you need years from now. :2cents:

Cat5 is a good idea, as is a phone line (we have old phone lines, I'm not sure we could even run a phone line on Cat 5)

 

[grsthegreat]

Cat5 is a good idea, as is a phone line (we have old phone lines, I'm not sure we could even run a phone line on Cat 5)

sure, you can always run a phone line on a cat5

i ran phone and cat5 to all my outbuildings. i have used the phone in all of them (a speakerphone with pager feature) and have used the cat5 for internet and ethernet in my shop.

cheap and easy to do while the trench is open.

i also always lay extra, empty conduits

the real odd thing is...and most people dont know this, cat 5 wire has 4 pairs of wires (8 total wires) for internet use. ONLY 2 of these wires (1 pair) is used. the rest are for future use. waste of wire hehe

 

[wedge40]

sure, you can always run a phone line on a cat5

i ran phone and cat5 to all my outbuildings. i have used the phone in all of them (a speakerphone with pager feature) and have used the cat5 for internet and ethernet in my shop.

cheap and easy to do while the trench is open.

i also always lay extra, empty conduits

the real odd thing is...and most people dont know this, cat 5 wire has 4 pairs of wires (8 total wires) for internet use. ONLY 2 of these wires (1 pair) is used. the rest are for future use. waste of wire hehe

Which two?