Pole Barn Advice

[twodogs]

I am getting ready to build a pole barn & would appreciate some advice from those who have gone that route. I would like to store my tractor implements inside, as well as provide enough room to raise some beef cattle in a few years.

I am planning on a 30 X 40 at this point, with sliding doors on both ends of the barn, as well as a small slider in the middle of the 40' side. I will also add 3 or 4 windows, and a standard 9 lite door. I am considering skylights and a functional cupola as well.

I plan on having the concrete done after it is built, and plan to build the stalls afterwards. I know that I read somewhere that adding an extra inch to the floor (5" vs 4") is advisable. I also plan to have a few drains installed in the floor.

We are considering solar for lighting, but I may just run a line from the house for power.

Any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated. We are considering Morton Buildings and buying a kit from 84 lumber & having the Amish build it.

 

[JDGREEN4ME]

If you even think you might want/need a bigger building do it now! I wish we had built larger but money was an issue at the time so we will be adding on.

 

[BMod]

Build it twice as big as you think you need, lol. It is cheaper to build it bigger now, than it is to add on later. Use clear or white plastic ridge vent for interior lighting, it works great. Slider door suck in the winter, I took all three of mine out after the first two winters.

 

[twodogs]

Thanks for the advice. I wish I could build it twice as big. I learned once from building a 12X16 shed - bigger is always better. As far as the sliders - too much air or snow coming through?

 

[BMod]

Freezing shut in the winter, frost heaving wedging the door. Not a good deal. I even paid extra for internal sliding doors.

 

[bullopa]

I agree with BMod - Build it bigger. It can't ever be too big!

 

[300UGUY]

Go big. Also, think about windows - do you really need them? They make keeping it warm in the winter hard, and can let any busybody look at youre stuff. I built my own 40x40x12. I'd put a vapor barrier under the crete at minimum. If I had it to do over, I'd think about putting insulation under the slab. I really like the Morton designs, not cheap, but they are the "Cadillac" of pole barns. Get a 100 amp panel or better, then you can run anything out there. I'd also do a metal roof. I would think twice about combining a animal barn with storage. Animals put off a lot of moisture and dust from hay. Animals and machinery are best stored seperately. And animal sheds frequently need to be open for the animals. Not very secure for equipment.

 

[rswyan]

Like the others, I'd vote to go as big as possible. We were originally looking at a 30' x 60' .... at the time, Cleary had a "special" going on them .... and on the larger 42' x 72' - which I opted to go with - since it (the shell) was only a couple of thousand more.

I've taken crap for that decision from my wife and my oldest kid ever since - for a few reasons: 1. it raised the cost (not only the few thousand more it originally took for the shell, but also for the additional materials to finish it off), and 2. it made it a larger project, which has made it take longer to complete.

Regardless, I still feel it was the correct decision: 1. My pickup is too large to park in the garage at the house (only a 6 1/2' high garage door), 2. I have enough equipment (truck, tractor, and implements) that use a significant portion of the floor space just for storing them, a smaller barn would have required moving stuff outside, in order to do equipment maintenance and work on projects inside .... and you will likely have "projects" ....

The doors on the ends are a good idea - I wish I had done it - would have saved me the cost of one door (2 instead of 3) or about $2K (door + opener), provided good ventilation, and would eliminate issues with snow drop off the roof in front of the doors. I went with 12' (wide) by 10' (high) overhead (insulated) doors.

Also consider your interior ceiling height carefully - is there potentially a car lift anywhere in your future ? Large vehicle ? (dump truck, motorhome, etc.) Pallet racking for vertical storage ? A mezzanine for a partial second floor ? (good way to increase floor space in the same size building footprint) I went with 12' ceilings - really wish I had done 14' or 16' instead ....

And a 5" floor is also a good idea - I wouldn't pour anything less for a building floor. Vapor barrier and 3/8 rebar on 24" centers (minimum) for sure .... and insulation (extruded/expanded polystyrene foamboard) - at least on the perimeter of the slab (edges vertically, and underneath, horizontally for the first 4' or 8'), which is where the majority of the heat loss will be. The insulation can be "seconds" or used (recycled) - doesn't have to cost big bucks (new) - I haven't used them (yet - I plan to though), but could possibly be picked up cheap from the guys at the following link:

The Insulation Depot

The floor should be double thick on the edges and door openings. Also consider installing PEX tubing for floor heat - relatively cheap to do before you pour .... hard (and expensive) to do later.

100A panel minimum is a good idea .... I went with 200A myself. Run a second smaller (1") conduit in a separate trench away from the main electric service feeding the building (for internet, cable, remote control)

On the floor drains, check with your local zoning or building department - putting them in may require a hookup to septic or sewer. Animals in the same building may complicate the picture and as mentioned previously have other downsides.

 

[bucktaker]

You mention stalls so i am thinking horses???? a 30x40 will be very small for a couple of stalls, hay storage, tack, feed, cross tie area etc not to mention manure spreader, atv,tractor, with equipment. Dont ask how I know ... 18 yrs ago I built the similar structure 30x50 10 ft tall 10x10 sliding doors Its loaded and everything is always covered in dust and its a real pain to load hay in to the too small hay loft with only 10 ft tall

Look at a 40x60 12 or 14 foot building it will be much better if you are doing animals and equipment.

I now have a second building 40x64x14 that was Amish built very nice building with complete concrete floor and garage doors. IMO Morton is overpriced and overrated for what they do. Check the Horseman's corral several amish builders in that paper

 

[twodogs]

Thanks Guys! This is exactly why I posted - great thoughts!

I am potentially raising a few cows for beef. Currently, my father-in-law raises beef - haven't bought any from a store in nearly 20 years. That situation may change as he is getting older, although my brother-in-law may take over there. If someone in the family will raise them - I will let them! If it gets to the point where I am raising them, it won't be more than 3 or 4. We thought of taking about 20 X 20 of the barn & dedicating it to the cows - & maybe a goat...

The moisture & machines idea is something to think about. Currently, I keep my Kubota in my garage, but I would like to put my brush hog, tiller, & other equipment in there. That stuff currently sits under an overhang at my current shed, so I thought that this would be an improvement.

Keep them coming! I truly appreciate it.

 

[wedge40]

I've heard lots people say they wish they had built a bigger shed, but still haven't heard a single person say they wish they built a smaller one. Like everyone else, go as big as you can afford. Most people have more time then money, so it doesn't have to get done all at once.
Being in PA, you WILL get snow and cold weather, so think about how you want to heat the place or if you're going to heat it for that matter. I'd go up a little, at least 12' if not more. An inexpensive storage option is a shed roof along one side.

I'm in the middle of mine. 40'x56'x12'. There's just me, and I'm not a farmer. I do plan on heating mine with radiant heat. Planning a utility room and bathroom as well. My goal is to be complete in 5 years or so.

Good luck..

Wedge.

 

[2LaneCruzer]

I have a 24'X32' building which I use as a shop and storage for my '59 Impala. It has a 16' overhead door on the East side and a standard 36" door on the West; I have windows on the South side that allow me to see the house and yard, and it allows some solar heating in the winter. I had them add a lean-to (or porch if you will) on the West side that I really like. It allows some storage for things that can take a little weather and affords cover over the door. Wish I had added about 10 or 12 feet of concrete apron on both ends, but didn't think about it at the time. It is well insulated, which I like. I haven't added heat or AC, but could. I wish I had added a vent fan in the peak of the roof, but othewise I am really happy with the building. I added plenty of electrical outlets, including a 220 in case I wanted to use a welder or maybe an electric heater.

 

[Branchchipper]

1. We spent just a few bucks extra per truss for a "vaulted A" design rather than the light duty standard pole barn trusses with a 2x4(?) horizontal bottom chord.
They give considerably more headroom if you decide to build a mezzanine (second floor) storage area, install pallet racks, or whatever.
I had no idea how much more "heavy duty" they would be until they were delivered- they are now a topic of conversation for visitors, as they make the building look "industrial grade."

2. I strongly agree with other posters about size- push out the footprint as far as you can go now, and do the same with eave height- you'll be glad you did years from now. So...

3.Get some graph paper and make a scale drawing of your proposed footprint with door locations. Add scaled versions of any equipment, stalls, shop benches, etc that you plan to keep in the building, and move it all around to get the best layout. I guarantee that you will make a series of revisions as you realize that the current footprint just won't meet all of your present (and possible future) needs. I spent hours playing around with different layouts (storage and function areas) on paper before deciding on a best fit. My family thought I'd finally lost it, but I'm glad I did so. We built way bigger than originally intended, but there is NO wasted or unused space in there now (we built it in 2008).

4. A friend steered me towards roll-up doors. They are not cheap, but they ended up being perfect, as there are no tracks, cables, springs or anything sticking out into the shop space inside each door. If you need insulated doors, they are not the best choice, but I am sold on them otherwise, and insulation wasn't an issue for us (we just heat an "inner sanctum," not the whole barn.)

Good luck, and have fun!

 

[wedge40]

I forgot to mention, if you go higher, place your windows higher as well. The bottom of my windows are right at 6'. Makes it harder for people to look in.

Wedge

 

[rswyan]

3.Get some graph paper and make a scale drawing of your proposed footprint with door locations. Add scaled versions of any equipment, stalls, shop benches, etc that you plan to keep in the building, and move it all around to get the best layout. I guarantee that you will make a series of revisions as you realize that the current footprint just won't meet all of your present (and possible future) needs. I spent hours playing around with different layouts (storage and function areas) on paper before deciding on a best fit.

Mine:

 

[twodogs]

Mine:

I cannot wait to show this to my wife. She says that I am ****-retentive....
I am impressed - well done!

 

[300UGUY]

Thanks Guys! This is exactly why I posted - great thoughts!

I am potentially raising a few cows for beef. Currently, my father-in-law raises beef - haven't bought any from a store in nearly 20 years. That situation may change as he is getting older, although my brother-in-law may take over there. If someone in the family will raise them - I will let them! If it gets to the point where I am raising them, it won't be more than 3 or 4. We thought of taking about 20 X 20 of the barn & dedicating it to the cows - & maybe a goat...

The moisture & machines idea is something to think about. Currently, I keep my Kubota in my garage, but I would like to put my brush hog, tiller, & other equipment in there. That stuff currently sits under an overhang at my current shed, so I thought that this would be an improvement.

Keep them coming! I truly appreciate it.

It isn't just the moisture, the hay is very dusty, and everything gets coated in a fine dust. The dust holds moisture, and causes surface rust on sheet metal and gets into everything. Plus you have to keep the doors open most of the time for ventilation and allowing access for pasture.

 

[rgood]

I would put a lean-to all along the 40' side - that is less expensive space and great for livestock.
If money is an issue, you can buy 2 buildings for the price of a Morton.

 

[NorTracNY]

I've heard lots people say they wish they had built a bigger shed, but still haven't heard a single person say they wish they built a smaller one. Like everyone else, go as big as you can afford. Most people have more time then money, so it doesn't have to get done all at once.
Being in PA, you WILL get snow and cold weather, so think about how you want to heat the place or if you're going to heat it for that matter. I'd go up a little, at least 12' if not more. An inexpensive storage option is a shed roof along one side.

I'm in the middle of mine. 40'x56'x12'. There's just me, and I'm not a farmer. I do plan on heating mine with radiant heat. Planning a utility room and bathroom as well. My goal is to be complete in 5 years or so.

Good luck..

Wedge.

Sorry, I've been offline for a few days. Don't build too big. Also, when it comes to affording it, remember the tax increase. My town wanted to assess my place at over 3X the cost of it and that would mean paying thousands every year just to have a pole barn. I have to deal with this problem every few years when a new idiot assessor is moved in. They refuse to correct the problem.

 

[Boris1]

Sliding doors are a pain when you have to shovel the snow away to push them open, wish I would have just got a roll up for that and more of a seal from critters and wind.