Pole Barn, Pole Question

[HoustonBrama]

Good evening to all. I'm new to the forum here but I truly like it. There is a wealth of knowledge here from what I've read that I have not found any where else. I will try to be brief.
I'm currently in the Army serving in Afghanistan. This will be my last combat tour and then I will leave the Army for nice civilian life. I have been saving for a nice horse barn for three combat tours. When I return in December construction will begin.
My question is, have any of you ever made nail-lam beams for poles for your pole barns? I have seen many, many photo's on the web of these. It seems as they would be much easier to erect than a solid 20' pole as they go together in pieces. Also, if you have, I thought I read some where that you should not use more than three 2"x6"'s together. Is 2"x8"'s better?

 

[EddieWalker]

I've seen this in some of the "handyman" magazines for weekend warriors, but it's not something I'd recomend. The problem is that 2x lumber is only treated for above ground use. It's not treated at a level for being buried in the ground.

Hopefully somebody who knows for sure can give you the numbers, or you can look them up. My guess is that 2x lumber is rated at .25 and posts for direct burial in the ground is rated at .40 and of course, posts fof docks and water submersion has an even higher rating. My guess is .80 but I really don't remember these things for sure.

I wouldn't do it.

Eddie

Thank you for your service.
USMC 1983 to 1988

 

[buckeyefarmer]

I know morton uses laminated posts for some of their pole barns. I seem to recall when shopping for my barn seeing some available somewhere, but forget where. I assume (watch that word) that they are made for direct ground contact. I know the posts I put in the ground were the ones rated for water, something like .6 or .8

Be careful over their, it seems to be heating up there again.

 

[HoustonBrama]

What if I coated them up real good with some roofing tar? Never mind the green peace stuff.

 

[mjncad]

I know morton uses laminated posts for some of their pole barns. I seem to recall when shopping for my barn seeing some available somewhere, but forget where. I assume (watch that word) that they are made for direct ground contact. I know the posts I put in the ground were the ones rated for water, something like .6 or .8

Be careful over their, it seems to be heating up there again.

A homeowner in my neighborhood is putting up a Morton building and I noticed the laminated posts as I drove by one day. I seem to recall the portion in the ground was one piece with at least one or two rabbets cut into the post for the non-pressure treated wood to attach to. Then I seem to recall seeing cleats or jack studs on each side of the joint to give it stability.

Tough to see exact details when driving 25-MPH past the building.

However, I agree with Eddie's advice to you.

 

[SteelDust]

Stick with the poles designed for ground contact.

Pole building poles are 0.60 CCA (the old treatment chemical that has since been restricted by the EPA)


Treated 2x6 will be 0.25 ACQ. Which is the newer, "safer" treatment chemical. Which by nearly all accounts does not work as well, and is **** on any type of fastener or bracket other than stainless.

 

[shvl73]

The poles I bought were .60 ACQ. Time will tell how well they last. The yard I bought them from used to sell 1.5 CCA. I believe all were green hemlock that had been incised.

 

[dmccarty]

I was looking at a Morton building and they had used 2x6's/2x8's as posts. Pretty sure it was PT. The nice detail I remember was that the middle 2x was shorter than the outer 2x. This allowed them to insert the truss in the slot created by the taller/shorter 2xs. Hope that make sense.

I would only use PT wood for ground contact for the poles if they are in the ground. What I have planned to do was pour concrete piers and attach the poles to metal anchors embedded in the piers. I just don't like the idea of the wood in the ground but that is just me.

Later,
Dan

 

[BotaBigot]

What if I coated them up real good with some roofing tar? Never mind the green peace stuff.

As others have said...use PT. Pressure treating is done in a "pressure cooker," raising and lowering pressure to draw treatment deep into wood fibers, making them rot resistant. Coatings are a barrier only...don't improve wood's resistance to rot...

 

[pemad]

What if I coated them up real good with some roofing tar? Never mind the green peace stuff.

I would not build them but I am sure that your local lumber yard could get them for you. I opted for the 6x6 posts but I think that the laminated post would be much easier to work with as they will be much straighter.

 

[HoustonBrama]

Thanks for the answers guys. I knew there had to be a reason why not to use the nail-lam. I never thought about the treatment percentage. I'll have to do some searching when I get home. I need some 20' poles. The lumber yards around only sell 12'. They may be able to order them though. Thanks again.

 

[jdmar]

The 6 x 6 seem to be straight...seems like they use the center of the tree and not an off-center cut--I guess that allows more equal expansion/contraction with moisture changes. I just placed some 16 foot ones that were very straight. I had the same concern as you but they were perfect. I realize 20' is even harder to get straight.

Also, be careful about the type of pressure treating you get. I have been told by several local goat and sheep farmers (inlaws included) that the new ACQ has too much copper and can be dangerous or even fatal to goats/sheep. I got the older CCA for this reason. Lumber yard said the same. I do NOT know if it is true or an old wive's tail, but I figure I would stick with the CCA. They were also a fair amount cheaper!

Hope your project goes well, keep us posted.

Peter

 

[Grand_Pooba]

Some of the builder in my area have been using PT poles that only stick out of the ground about 4' and have staggers or rabbits cut into the sides. The non treated lam beams are attached to these so they don't come into contact with the ground. It also allows them to better "plumb" the lam poles as they attach them. I've seen a couple Morton buildings going up this way.

 

[ray66v]

I specified the laminated 4x6 poles for my 1.5 story barn.

Besides being dead straight, and that they will stay that way in the future. There is another advantage, they will not shrink like the solid treated ones.

 

[HoustonBrama]

Pooba, are you saying the guys are using like 6"x6" by about 8' solid posts sunk say 4' in the ground then mortise the top part to add regular 2x lumber? This is a good idea. I had not thought about that.

 

[uphill]

The "old" carpenters I worked with as a young man always used pressure treated posts when contacting the ground, then painted the post with roofing tar, and finally rapping the tar portion with roofing felt. They said it kept the roofing tar from drying out over the years. I know it works because I've removed posts that have been dressed in this manner and the tar was still gooey and could still make a mess!

 

[Grand_Pooba]

Houston,
Check out this link to the Morton building site. Morton Buildings, Inc. - Features - Timber Column. An additional advantage is you don't have to use stainless hardware all the way up the pole.

 

[Gizmo2]

I would use soild poles .60 yellow pine and these Post Protector

Laminated posts using 2x6's generally have better treatment through more of the board than do 6x6's. The 2x6 is thinner and the treatment will go completely through. But, the lamination fasteners will give out way before a 6x6 starts to have problems. I have a 32x32 pole barn I put up 22 years ago, it is as solid today as the day I put it up.

 

[HoustonBrama]

VERY good info. I'm gonna go with the 8' solid 6x6's coated with the roof tar and then start my regular 2x non treated boards up from there. I like the felt idea. That'll just be an added barrier. If it all comes falling down in ten years, y'all will be the first to know.

 

[MarkV]

The laminated post were discussed here several years ago and several engineers on the forum did not like the idea. Their problem with the system was that where you join the pressure treated with the untreated section you are creating a hinge point that regardless of how you join the two will be weaker than a solid post against wind load. Pole buildings are not sheathed with ply and tin does not offer any lateral stability to speak of so the poles are taking the majority of any side load.

Can’t say myself but I thought I would pass on what I recall from a previous discussion for consideration.

MarkV