Pole Barn question

[nvip9r]

Hi, I love the website and have got plenty of great suggestions. Now I am looking for some more. I am interested in building a garage. I like the idea of the pole barn for cost savings. I figured I can do 95% myself. My questions are do people use those Post Protectors? Are they worth it? I know it is different everywhere, but I am looking for something that is going to last, and I know a regular foundation would be the best but $$ is a factor. Or would I be better to use a concrete encapsulated pole footing? Or is it possible to pour a sonotube and just bolt the 6x6 onto that using those Simpson tie plates that isolate from the ground? I probably just need to go and talk to the building inspector but trying to get all my info lined up before hand. I am in Massachusetts and the ground is mostly a clay dirt mix. We have a small backhoe and figured I could dig out the poles easily enough, but wondering on what to use. I read a lot of different posts and see that some use them and most do not. Thanks.

 

[s78wingrider]

I don't like putting any kind of wood in the ground for a building. Just my 2 cents :confused2:

 

[ace10]

Consider your property tax situation, as well. Does your local taxing authroity consider pole buildings to be Ag/temporary and tax them at a lower rate than stick built one?

 

[sal64]

my pole barn has pt 4x6 posts in the dirt 4 foot down with a concrete pad form under bottom of post and the concrete flore was pored around the post with expantion matirial between post and concrete that is coed in my area . before the coeds my dad built a pole barn 4x6 pt post with a rock under post and it still standing 30 yrs later.

 

[simonds]

I have built many pole type buildings in upper N.Y.State. and North central Pa.
You have to check with your code enforcement people to do it the way they require. We have always dug the holes for the posts so they are at least 42" below grade, then mixed 1 bag of concrete mix into the hole and smooth it out the best you can. Next day set the posts and backfill about 6-8" at a time and tamp down very well. Do not pour concrete around the post. The frost will catch on the concrete and push the post upward.
Good Luck with your building,
Clayton
General Contractor for 42 years

 

[Kyle241]

I am close to finishing my pole building garage (24x32). I have poured concrete piers and used simpson strong ties to bolt down 6x6 treated posts. I agree not being a fan of any wood in the ground.

I'm much further along now, completely enclosed but still need to do soffitting and will get to the insulation and will pour a concrete pad next spring.

 

[nvip9r]

Thanks guys for the input.

Kyle - that looks great. Looks like you have the attic trusses. I am wondering on how you plan on insulating? Will it be metal roof and walls and then using that spray foam insulation?

That is another question I have, how to get around it raining in the garage if I decide to throw a wood stove in there later on.

Do you happen to know which ones you used?

On your cement pylons, how did you do it? 18" base and then pour a sonotube 12"?

Thanks again

 

[Kyle241]

Thanks guys for the input.

Kyle - that looks great. Looks like you have the attic trusses. I am wondering on how you plan on insulating? Will it be metal roof and walls and then using that spray foam insulation?

That is another question I have, how to get around it raining in the garage if I decide to throw a wood stove in there later on.

Do you happen to know which ones you used?

On your cement pylons, how did you do it? 18" base and then pour a sonotube 12"?

Thanks again

Yes I have attic trusses and the second floor is approx. 12'x32' so ample room for storage. I am planning to insulate with spray foam to help seal up the building. The roof is galvalume and exterior walls are smart panel with the bottom two feet treated ply and next spring finished with stone (not true stone, the cut stone).

Not sure I understand your question about the wood stove. I am installing a pellet stove I bought for my previous garage/barn that I built. It has a large hopper and burns for about 24hrs. It will vent out the back of the garage.

The cement piers were easy because I used 'The Footing Tube' (Concrete Pier Forms | Suitable for Decks, Fences, Additions, Docks | The Footing Tube). Not cheap as I was going to use big foot's and sono tubes but the footing tube seemed like an easier method for me.

 

[nvip9r]

Thanks to the guys that have chimed in.

I was hoping for some more input on the pole buildings and the post pole protectors or how other have done their buildings. And what they did to make sure they will last. I'd hate to have to rebuild in like 20years. I figured there are a lot of buildings out there and since not many in my area maybe get some good info from the site.

Thanks again

 

[bearcreek paul]

Pole barns in my area are not taxed like a garage with a foundation is.Plus they are alot cheaper to build.I started mine in september and had the roof shingled on october 31.That was all done by myself after work and on weekends.I had a head start when i built the trusses in august they were made from 2x6's.I did 4ft deep holes 6in gravel in bottom tubes with concrete i used 4x6 posts 2x10s one on inside one on outside 2 1/2in bolts through the posts and 2x10s for the trusses to set on and 2x4s for truss ties.After i started putting up the trusses i wished i went with rafters.All in all it was a learning experience and very enjoyable.The siding and floor will go in this spring after i get my hernias repaired.Also received alot of advise from my neighbors on what works here,and their barns are still standing after many years.

 

[nvip9r]

Paul
I checked out your setup. Looks great. So did the posts get encapsulated with the concrete or anchored to the top? Did you use the .40 or the .60 Pressure Treated posts. I am trying to keep on the cheap and it seems like a great idea. for a nice big garage for my toys.

Still trying to research the Pole Protectors. But from what I am seeing since not much input I am guessing people really aren't using them or they are just a gimick?? Still trying to research as well as how I can build my own trusses. Sounds like another way to save some more $$...

thanks

 

[bglz42]

Straight in the ground on mine. I asked my polebarn builder ( Joe Drywater) who has been at it a while. Recommended no encapsulation. I know that there are some that he built near here that are 20 plus years old and are still solid. The structure I built 12 years ago with concrete encapsulation rotted off at the concrete.

 

[EddieWalker]

Poles in the ground are a well proven method that has stood the test of time. Packing them in clay or pouring concrete is still a debate as to which is best. Both have their advantages and drawbacks. I personally like to pack them in clay and avoid concrete if possible.

What is critical with your poles is to be sure to get water away from them as fast as possible and keep them dry at fround level. In every case when they rot out, it's not what happens in the ground, it's what happens at ground level. What I've seen is the ground settles around the poles over time and water collects there. That water will lead to rot. Pressure treated wood rots like all other wood, it just takes longer. Once it starts, there's no stopping it, so you really have to pay attention to that area. Walls, floors, eves and even gutters all help to keep water away from the posts, but nothing is better then a really good slope away from the wall to move the water as fast as possible.

Spray on insulation is going to be the very best that you can get. It is also the most expensive by a very large margin. Most economical way is to roll out a layer of insulation over your purlins and install your metal over that. This will take care of the condensation issue that metal roofs are famous for. Then use fiberglass bats if you want to insulate the roof, or blown insulation if you want to insulate the celing. Blown in gives you the best coverage and R factor for the money.

Good luck,
Eddie

 

[bearcreek paul]

Mine were encapsulated in concrete.One of my friends told me to just use sand i was a little leery of that and stayed with the concrete.As was mentioned it's the water from above that gives you grief.I have had my deck on for over 15yrs and the posts look like new just keep the water away.The lumber was all bought from lowes so i would imagine it would be 40.Like you i was trying to build it cheep as possible.good luck and have fun:thumbsup:

 

[bironacad]

I used sonotubes and u-clips. Cedar rough cut 6 x 6 posts time will tell, lol.

 

[Tompet]

I checked out these a little over a year ago at an impressive full service lumber yard (Keim Lumber) which was also closest dist. and the price was around $140. each for a 5' long pressure concrete base attached to a 12' 6x6.
tp

<http://www.permacolumn.com/>

 

[ole farmerbuck]

We're having a 40x80 shop (pole barn) built now. The contractor said they use cement in the bottom and dirt around the treated 'poles'. He said he would use gravel if i wanted to get it for him. Wonder if gravel would be better than dirt.

 

[grsthegreat]

i have 6x6 and 6x8 treated post stuck directly into the ground 4 feet deep. my barn has been up for 12 years...looks new still. not sure about pole protectors...not sure what they are. treated lumber has been shown to withstand rot. our ground here is all decomposed granite, so water doesn't pool. i guess if i had standing water i might think of some other form of protection for the posts. the only thing that does erk me is the movement of the 6x6's do set off some minor floor cracking in some areas. i dont think that a simpson tie would hold up the shear forces of a barn. ive used those on lean toos attached to regular buildings, but never to a free standing building (my 2 cents)

 

[grandpa_e]

I recently had a 30x40x12 pole barn built in Southern Louisiana. I went with the post protectors for two reasons, termites and water. We have lots of both! Once the building is sided and under roof, there is no way for water to get into the post protectors. Also, since the protectors go about a foot higher than the slab, I can visually see if termites were getting up to the wood. I won't say they are good for everyone, but in our area I think they are a must. Can't speak to the longevity, but I think it will be very good.

 

[bironacad]

I recently had a 30x40x12 pole barn built in Southern Louisiana. I went with the post protectors for two reasons, termites and water. We have lots of both! Once the building is sided and under roof, there is no way for water to get into the post protectors. Also, since the protectors go about a foot higher than the slab, I can visually see if termites were getting up to the wood. I won't say they are good for everyone, but in our area I think they are a must. Can't speak to the longevity, but I think it will be very good.

Hi Grandpa_e, is this what you used and is the bottom of the post protector closed?
Installation Instructions – Post Frame | Post Protector