Poor cab heat

   / Poor cab heat
  • Thread Starter
#41  
Kyle in Texas
The dealer used temp gun on the tractor to get the engine block and radiator temps.
 
   / Poor cab heat #42  
Sounds like the thermostat to me. If the cardboard warms it up it tells me the engine isn't getting hot enough. Thermostat adjusts the internal temp. of the engine. Heat guns are a good device, but in this case you don't want external temp. They need to know the internal temp. flowing thru the engine and input and output actual temp. of the heater. Hard to get with a heat gun. Most engines are also built to perform best at the operating temp.
 
   / Poor cab heat
  • Thread Starter
#43  
tglass said:
Sounds like the thermostat to me. If the cardboard warms it up it tells me the engine isn't getting hot enough. Thermostat adjusts the internal temp. of the engine. Heat guns are a good device, but in this case you don't want external temp. They need to know the internal temp. flowing thru the engine and input and output actual temp. of the heater. Hard to get with a heat gun. Most engines are also built to perform best at the operating temp.
The cardboard was tried and nearly completely covered the radiator but had minimal effect on the engine temp or radiator temp. Top of the radiator reached 77 degrees with the radiator covered on a 50F day. Max engine heat with radiator covered was 125F on the surface of the block.
 
   / Poor cab heat #44  
Is there anyway you can connect a mechanical temp gauge? I have a gun also and it does work well, but in this case, I'd like to see the actual coolant temp. I'm in the house and too cold/lazy to go to the shop and look at my tractor, but there should be some place we can tap into the coolant stream. Maybe where the existing sender is.

I just love to spend $30k on a tractor and $40k on a truck and get a "high-end" temp gauge with a nice little "C" and "H" on it!!

This just does not make sense. How can an engine, with the coolant shut off by the thermostat, not produce any heat while running??? Even idling at 1500 or so under no load, mine will heat up fast to operating temperature at 30 degrees ambient. I remember letting mine idle for 10 minutes or so last winter before using it and when I got in, it was warm already.

Lets try to find out what the coolant temp in the block is after running for several minutes. Plus, a thermostat is cheap and maybe we should just try it also. I know you did the water test on it and it passed. Maybe it fails in the machine or maybe there is a burr or something in the casting that caused it to hang open. I don't know, this is wierd....

Chris
 
   / Poor cab heat #45  
Just thought I'd chime in on my 4320 with now 16 hours on it. The heater is working fine here in North Dakota. Our Temps. are in the 20's and 30's. It heats up quickly and soon after starting needs to be put on low heat with the fan speed on the lowest setting. That heater had better keep working as I 'am going to put a 100" bucket on it and put it to work moveing snow. It gets real cold here. I agree the fan should have a clutch on it. I am going to see if I can get a conversion.
 
   / Poor cab heat #46  
Is it possible that JD uses two different Tstats one for open station tractors and one for cab tractors. The orginal poster's tractor could have come down the assembly line with a cab and had an open station engind stuck in it. These cab tractors are new enough that maybe a different part # for Tstat is not in the system yet.

not sure just thinking outloud
Good luck
PeterT
 
   / Poor cab heat #47  
radman, since your tractor isn't over-heating and your temp. gauge shows normal operating temp. , I would say your coolant system is fine. I would advise you to check and double check your heater hoses for kinks and sharp bends that would restrict flow. Check the hoses that go to the heater core in the top of the cab. Another possible problem it could be is air trapped in the heater hoses and/or heater core. My brother had the identical problem with his tractor (5425). Luckily, he noticed his heater problem while at the dealer, before delivery. It took a mechanic about 30 minutes to correct using a vacuum pump on the heater hose from the heater core. Mechanic said that it is common problem because any air in heater system cannot "work it's way out" due to the height of the heater core vs. radiator cap and overflow tank. Another thing to remember on your coolant system is that your radiator only has coolant flow when your engine(thermostat) temp. goes above normal operating temp. On the heater side of the sytem, the coolant is continuosly circulated from engine to heater core and back. I have seen new cummins diesels that could not maintain operating tempature at 0 degrees while idling but the heater worked fine(the truck would automaticaly go to high idle 3 minutes after parking and letting the truck idle). Basically, what I'm trying to say is that a cold radiator doesn't mean sh** to how a heater should work.
 
   / Poor cab heat
  • Thread Starter
#48  
mike311 said:
radman, since your tractor isn't over-heating and your temp. gauge shows normal operating temp. , I would say your coolant system is fine. I would advise you to check and double check your heater hoses for kinks and sharp bends that would restrict flow. Check the hoses that go to the heater core in the top of the cab. Another possible problem it could be is air trapped in the heater hoses and/or heater core. My brother had the identical problem with his tractor (5425). Luckily, he noticed his heater problem while at the dealer, before delivery. It took a mechanic about 30 minutes to correct using a vacuum pump on the heater hose from the heater core. Mechanic said that it is common problem because any air in heater system cannot "work it's way out" due to the height of the heater core vs. radiator cap and overflow tank. Another thing to remember on your coolant system is that your radiator only has coolant flow when your engine(thermostat) temp. goes above normal operating temp. On the heater side of the sytem, the coolant is continuosly circulated from engine to heater core and back. I have seen new cummins diesels that could not maintain operating tempature at 0 degrees while idling but the heater worked fine(the truck would automaticaly go to high idle 3 minutes after parking and letting the truck idle). Basically, what I'm trying to say is that a cold radiator doesn't mean sh** to how a heater should work.
The inflow heater hose comes directly off the water pump to the cab heater. The return flow goes to the lower radiator hose and connects into a "T" in the radiator hose. The service manage believes the radiator core is relatively too big. Even with the air flow blocked off with a piece of cardboard, he thinks the fan still moves to much air on the back side and around the radiator and thus it still cools to much. If the cold radiator never allows the engine to heat up, then the engine can't heat the cab. I admit a closed thermostat should still heat engine to operating temp regardless if the radiator. There is slightly more heat in the cab at fast idle but not significant. Service manager and I talked about an air block problem in the cab heater, but that still would not explain an engine block temp of 125 at fast idle. He talked with JD today. He told me the the engineers have sent some solutions to the tractor designer who is going to evaluate possible options. JD acknowledges this is a problem in the 3000 and 4000 twenty cab models.
I don't think my tractor temp gauge gets high enough. The needle rises about 1/4 -1/3 up from the bottom and far from the red zone. In the late summer, while mowing, it would rise to just over half way. It also now takes 15-20 minutes to just move the gauge needle off the bottom mark on a 50F day. I did briefly mess with the heater in the late summer and it definitely blew hot air. Nothing was changed in the interval. I JD doesn't find an answer, I may just have them put in a new thermostat. (They did say the current one was working properly when tested in hot water).
 
   / Poor cab heat #49  
Water will take the path of least resistance; I don't know if these engines use an external bypass hose and/or machined internal passages. When the T/stat is closed the coolant is not dead ended against the t/stat, it is circulating within the block either by bypass hose(s), heater core, or internal passages, so if this particular engine has several ways for the water to circulate while t/stat is closed then just a slight restriction in heater hoses, or an air lock could severly lower heater capacity. I bet the cause (if not t'stat) is lukewarm warm coolant at a low flow rate. The radiator size has nothing to do with it, if the t/stat is closed tight no water will slip by to the radiator to be cooled. I would like to see fan clutches on small tractors if practical, all they would do is free up power as again if the t/stat s closed ALL the coolant that is circulating is within the block. It does not have an aircooled engine, if the t/stat stuck shut on a hot day a hundred MPH blast of air would not cool it down blowing across cast iron. I read some people on some of the (diesel) truck sites who remove the fan/clutch assy and claim the heater will run them out before they get 1/2 mile whereas it used to take 7-8 miles. This is the placebo effect, when the t/stat is closed the fan clutch is moving air but it is passing across a radiator with already cold coolant. I think you have an air lock due to the high lift, and /or partially kinked hoses and the coolant is just going round and round through whatever method this engine uses as a bypass. The first 3xxx cab series I saw several months ago, THE ONLY badly engineered thing I noticed right off was the A/C & heater hoses run through the front right pillar/tube. I could not believe that as good as John Deere sweats some of the minor details that these tractors were released with that snake pit runing through that tube. It is just asking for pre-mature failure. I think the cab 3XXX and 4XXX are great tractors and would love to have one..........
 
   / Poor cab heat #50  
Might try taking fan belt off as someone suggested. Then you will know if thermostat is working, guage is working, and if heater will work. I was thinking maybe you have a hose blockage going to heater, but if radiator is not heating up, that's probably not the cause. Is radiator full. We used to have a crown victoria that if coolant got a little low, it wouldn't circulate through heater, but it would still circulate through engine. How many hrs on unit, make them take it back or swap you another unit. Don't know how lemon laws apply to farm equipment.

I went on JD website and typed in thermostat faulty. It appears there are 2 therm. on some applications (12.7 L. engine?). Could this be the problem? Which engine do you have? Might go there and search around for some additional info.
 
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