Post emissions used tractors.

[N80]

There is an auction the second Wednesday of every month in Moultrie Ga called Weeks Farm Auction and the next day which is always the second Thursday of every month called Rebel auction in Hazlehurst Ga and there are usually always some nice pre-emissions tractors at each auction or at least there have been, some good deals can be had if you don't have to have green paint, red and blue tractors can be real reasonable and sometimes orange as well, you can look at every item online starting about a week before and if anything interest you , take a road trip and you can start the equipment operate it etc, then bid on it if it suits you, they (pre-emission ) tractors are still out there.

That’s about a 5 1/2 hour trip for me. But heck, worst case scenario is I don’t win anything but still get to look at a lot of cool machinery.

 

[Lineman North Florida]

That’s about a 5 1/2 hour trip for me. But heck, worst case scenario is I don’t win anything but still get to look at a lot of cool machinery.

They both have websites and Proxibid, good thing is you can go most anytime during like 8-5 hours the week leading up to the auction and try out anything you like, go home and bid online or set your max and see what happens, you have a week I think to move it after the auction, if you want to see what some have went for at past auctions just google Rebel auction past results or something like that and you can look at the auction results for the past year or so.

 

[MHarryE]

Reading the horror stories, mostly from users who don’t have Tier 4 tractors, is good for a laugh. My first Tier 4 was in 2013. No problems with it but I needed a bigger tractor and traded it in 2017 which is now entering its 6th season no engine emissions issues (fan/alternator idler failed last season so I can’t say no engine issues). I traded my Tier 3 CUT for a Tier 4 equivalent in 2016. It got traded for a larger tractor last December - no engine problems through 6 seasons. I don’t drive the Tier 4 tractors different than earlier tractors but I’ve never been one to baby tractors. If one needs to run a grain auger for 2 hours at part throttle, that’s what happens. My 2 larger tractors have E-PTO - for lighter work Kubota suggests using it, lower engine speed, Kubota says better fuel economy, longer engine life. Should they not offer it because you read here you can’t run a Tier 4 at part throttle? Maybe running by the book will backfire on me. I also have a Tier 4 Compact Track Loader which gets a lot of part throttle operation - again no issues except - it doesn’t have a DPF % monitor so I did once finish for the day with it idling 5 minutes at part throttle to complete its regen. Of course I can’t guarantee you’ll have the same experience but not every Tier 4 tractor is a nightmare.

 

[rScotty]

I think that the dividing line should be between individual injection diesels and the common rail diesels.
Not by whether or what type of emissions control equipment the tractor has. The change to common rail injection had more influence on both performance & reliability.

Before common rail was invented, all diesels were fully mechanical with each cylinder being fed by its individual injectorstriggered by cam-generated pressure.
Common rail pressurized all the injectors all the time, and used a computer to trigger the electo-mechanical injectors at the proper time.

To give you some idea of when common rail became common, one of the first common rail diesels I encountered was the Ford Powerstroke which came out in 1995. Unfortunately it became infamous for computer related injector problems.

For awhile it was common for manufacturers to take a successful mechanically injected diesel and adapt it to the new common rail system. Kubota did that with the individual injection 60 hp engine in our 2008 Kubota. Later versions were common rail. Once an engine was outfitted with bolt-on common rail components, it was easy to add software to profile the injector operation. Common rail made more power and less emissions. But were also less reliable.

By about 2012 most tractors had changed to common rail and now had computer controlled engines. The reason for that was that even with emission reduction schemes & equipment, computer injection control was needed to meet Tier IV.

So in my opinion the biggest change was not the emissions equipment. The big change in tractors was computer control of fuel injection. But both happened at about the same time.

rScotty

 

[jyoutz]

Thanks @dodge man. That helps a lot.

Did a little research on the Kubota M7060 and found this on another forum:

There is no DEF on a M7060, there is no OBD port to hook a scanner to, and there's no modification to raise the idle with a switch like there is on a OTR truck.

When it calls for a regen, you will have to manually raise your RPM's until the light with the arrow pointing up, goes out. You can continue to use the machine, just keep your RPM's up. After the regen is complete, all the corresponding lights will go out, and it's done. Takes anywhere from 25-40min. On the occasion that it calls for a parked regen, you'll have to put everything in neutral, turn off the PTO, set the parking brake, and keep the throttle down to an idle. Then you will push the regen switch with the "P" next to it, and the computer will take over and allow it to regen. At that time, you can not use the tractor, allow it to do it's regen and go do something else. When it's done, the lights will go out.

So, if this is true then the M7060 does not have DEF. That's good. I'd hate to have to mess with and pay for that stuff. But, if the part about regenerating is true them I'm out. My work/project time is limited to weekends and is of great value to me. I do a lot of low rpm work where running at higher rpms is just not an option (dragging piles of logs over rough and hilly terrain, lifting logs onto sawmill, etc) so doing a 25 minute high rpm regen would essentially bring work to a halt. The post above does not say how long a "parked regen" would take but if it is 25 minutes or more I would lose my mind. There is no way I'm spending big bucks on a machine that essentially has to stop and rest.

But, that brings up a question. Can you do preemptive regens? In other words, if the filter is not full of soot and I'm doing something that does not require the tractor, can I have it do a parked regen and thus avoid having to do it while I'm trying to work?

Finally, can these machines be modified to get rid of this crap? (If that is illegal or this is a taboo topic then no reply is necessary.)

I don’t understand the concerns about DEF. I had a Volkswagen TDI and have a Dodge Cummins that use DEF. It’s cheap, and available almost everywhere. I’ve never had an issue with it.

 

[Hay Dude]

DPF tractors that are run infrequently, started & stopped frequently, and not worked very hard are more prone to problems than non-DPF tractors. They dont get run hot & hard enough to keep the DPF clear.
However, one could also reason that tractors not run very hard or infrequently don‘t need to be as reliable, either.

If you need to make a living with a tractor, reliability is more important than clean exhaust. That sounds mean and insensitive, and maybe it is, but a tractor down with a sensor means money lost in profits and repairs.
There’s a reason a 2011 tractor without a DPF/DEF will sometimes fetch more money than the same 2013 tractor with a DPF/DEF.

 

[Number15]

So I am fairly new to tractoring and did not know a lot about them pre 2020.

I'm amazed that pre emissions tractors never went down. I mean reading this thread seems like tractors never broke pre tier IV.
I wish that my cars from back then would have been as reliable (clearly sarcasm)

I think this issue is so overblown right now its not funny. I mean someone earlier in the thread made it sound like finding DEF was hard. And in some cases SCR allows designs without EGR and I will agree thats a good thing.

 

[SF82]

I have to say I will never own anything requiring DEF, just can't see using it. Though for you fellas with horses and cows you can have all you want free, just gotta be quick with that bucket

 

[Hay Dude]

So I am fairly new to tractoring and did not know a lot about them pre 2020.

I'm amazed that pre emissions tractors never went down. I mean reading this thread seems like tractors never broke pre tier IV.
I wish that my cars from back then would have been as reliable (clearly sarcasm)

I think this issue is so overblown right now its not funny. I mean someone earlier in the thread made it sound like finding DEF was hard. And in some cases SCR allows designs without EGR and I will agree thats a good thing.

My 2020 RAM with a DEF system went down back in January. The DEF gauge broke. I was unable to determine how much DEF was in the tank. The truck still ran, but had a CEL on constantly. Dealer fixed under warranty, but parts took a little time to get (not stocked at dealer).

Made me wonder, what if I were pulling a loaded trailer and a more serious DPF/DEF part broke which shuts the truck off or puts it in limp mode? With a load on the trailer?


Back in about 2015, I was pulling an empty trailer with a 2008 F-550 equipped with a DPF. The DPF temp sensor tip failed and shut the truck down in about 15 seconds. The truck had to be towed to dealer. Old sensor had to be heated to be removed. New bung had to be welded on and new sensor installed. Out of warranty it was over $1,000 to fix. Lost truck for 3 days. Trailer sat on shoulder of road for a few days.

Stressful? YEP!

 

[Number15]

My 2020 RAM with a DEF system went down back in January. The DEF gauge broke. I was unable to determine how much DEF was in the tank. The truck still ran, but had a CEL on constantly. Dealer fixed under warranty, but parts took a little time to get (not stocked at dealer).

Made me wonder, what if I were pulling a loaded trailer and a more serious DPF/DEF part broke which shuts the truck off or puts it in limp mode? With a load on the trailer?


Back in about 2015, I was pulling an empty trailer with a 2008 F-550 equipped with a DPF. The DPF temp sensor tip failed and shut the truck down in about 15 seconds. The truck had to be towed to dealer. Old sensor had to be heated to be removed. New bung had to be welded on and new sensor installed. Out of warranty it was over $1,000 to fix. Lost truck for 3 days. Trailer sat on shoulder of road for a few days.

Stressful? YEP!

And I have the opposite experience. I have about 500k on DEF vehicles with no problems at all (2011, 2013 and 2017 6.7 Ford's) touch wood

I also had the legendary 7.3 in a 1999 f350 that was nothing but problems. Would routinely have issues towing and leaving me stranded.
So experiences differ