Post for workshop.....Solid vs Glulam

[jmc]

The other advantage claimed for laminated beams like Morton's is that the chemical won't fully penetrate a thick board so the inside rots out eventually. OTOH, each 2 x ? will be fully penetrated so laminating any quantity of them has full protection.

Also, I like the way Morton leaves the middle board of a three board post a little short at the top. This allows the rafter to be sandwiched by the two other boards as well a sitting solidly on the middle board end grain. With a conventional post, it's attached to the post's side.

 

[Rock knocker]

The other advantage claimed for laminated beams like Morton's is that the chemical won't fully penetrate a thick board so the inside rots out eventually. OTOH, each 2 x ? will be fully penetrated so laminating any quantity of them has full protection.

Probably not. Most treated GLB's are first laminated, then treated as a whole. It is true the treated wood can rot from the inside, but only if the bugs can get there. That is why it is crucial that ends and notches be treated. But they are more often than not, not treated.

 

[jmc]

I wasn't implying that Morton's beams are GLB. But they ARE laminated.

 

[Rock knocker]

If they aren't a glue-lam beam (GLB) what are they then? A LVL? LSL? Those are not usually used in a vertical application

 

[LD1]

If they aren't a glue-lam beam (GLB) what are they then? A LVL? LSL? Those are not usually used in a vertical application

If you are refering to what morton uses, they are neither. They simply sandwich 3 2x6's or 2x8's together with nails. They may use glue???? But I dont think they do.

Here, read up Features Three-Member Laminated Columns by Morton Buildings, Inc.

 

[KennyG]

Based on the original post, I would stay with the glue-lam. When you start to get over a certain height, the post compressive strength no longer controls the design. Bending and buckling become the critical loading. The reliability of the bending strength of the timber post is relatively low because of the inconsistency of the grain. The glue-lam will be much superior.

 

[Kenfyoozed]

Thanks for all the help. I just wanted to update with my findings. I did indeed speak with the engineer and he reran the numbers of the ABMartin post. He concluded that the ABMartin post would meet the the specs for my shop. So thanks again. This will be my first building project. I will have others, family and friends, guide me along the way. Im sure i will have plenty more questions, so bear with me if you dont mind.

 

[dirtbone]

8X8 southern yellow pine PT. 7 1/2/ by 7 1/2 actually. They are strong as ****! I can't believe your engineer didn't have enough practical in him to spec those, given cost, convience, etc.

 

[jimgerken]

After using both solid PT posts and laminated 2x6 assemblies, I would use the laminated if possible. PT penetration is one reason. A big solid post is nice if kept dry, but in reality if it is in the ground it is soaking wet for the rest of its life. In my experience a solid post will last about 40 years at ground level. Sometimes more, sometimes less, depending on the species and the ground conditions and the side of the building it is used on (north,south, east...). A step up from laminated is to put the laminated in bracketry on top of a thickened edge slab, however I would not build 20 feet tall with that method, assuming a standard pole building with no sheathing either inside or out.

 

[marcomjl]

I am a builder and the code book as per-engineered charts for different types of lumber and sizes and that 4ply glulam is a type of fir most likely. Fir, whether hem or douglas is much stronger than pines, spruces, etc so just from that, pine will definitely not do. Just go with the glulam or LVL, glulam will be cheaper most likely.

 

[powerpace]

The solid beam will not stand the stress that is designed into the gluelam. The Glulam is laid up with KD graded lumber and is superior to a solid piece of the same dimensions. A treated solid post would also have to be bigger in size. Treated lumber is usually not the best structural lumber. You usually have to order beams of any size to be used for load bearing.

 

[dirtbone]

How about PT Paralam beams? I have seen them used as girders(8x8s) but not as in vertical apps.Can you tell me the brand name of what has been decided on?

 

[BHD]

I have been building fence for nearly 50 years, My dad would buy these guaranteed posts that were said to last a life time, it is amazing on how many of them have rotted off and have needed to be replaced over the years, OK now with that said, I do like the pole barn Idea, but I do not like the idea of posts in the ground,
and I have thought that IF I was to build a pole barn I would set in cement (say two channel irons spaced so one could bolt the post in between them, and then either weld or drill some holes in the part under the cement for some rebar anchors.

the channels could be bolted before setting or after, I would use a 5 inch channel for 2x6 and 7 inch for 2x8 laminated posts,

as far as that goes one could use a square tube steel for posts set in concrete, and above ground weld tabs on it to bolt the wood girts and purlins to, or bolt a 2x6 to both sides of a 4x4 tube, if wanted one could rip the wood to the width of the tube, or make a three sided wood for easer carpentry,

 

[Baby Grand]

I'll second keeping the wood out of the soil.
Pour footings with integral, metal attachments to anchor the posts above grade.
This discourages rot, allows you to use shorter posts and allows you to easily remove/replace a damaged post in the future.

 

[jimgerken]

Or buy these Perma-column brand, Sturdi-wall brackets like I used...

Perma-Column | What are Sturdi-Wall Brackets

 

[mx842]

Or buy these Perma-column brand, Sturdi-wall brackets like I used...

Perma-Column | What are Sturdi-Wall Brackets

I looked at something like that but they were pricey as all get out. I made my own out of 3/16 flat bar welded to 3/16- 2x2 angel iron pieces 5 inches long. The flat bar pieces were 4 inches wide and about 8 inches high and both the flat bar and the angle pieces were drilled with a 1/2" hole to attach to the concrete pad and the post. I saved enough on these brackets to pay for almost all of the concrete it took to pour my piers.

 

[tkappeler]

If you are seeking prices as far away as PA, check out a few miles further into NJ. I am getting ready to break ground on a new home. Medford Cedar has a stash of high tension poles (about 2' - 3' diameter) that they recycle. I am using them for my exposed rafters. They mill them to whatever size you need. I was quoted 4"x10" @ $9/lf. They have no problem getting 20+ foot long ones.

Good luck.

 

[BooDeeRadley]

Or buy these Perma-column brand, Sturdi-wall brackets like I used...

Perma-Column | What are Sturdi-Wall Brackets

I am curious, how far apart did you space them? How high are your sidewalls? Also, what are the specs of your slab, wall, footers, etc? I tried to get some info about spacing of sturdi-wall brackets from a vendor, but they wrote me back saying I should ask a structural engineer.

 

[marcomjl]

I am curious, how far apart did you space them? How high are your sidewalls? Also, what are the specs of your slab, wall, footers, etc? I tried to get some info about spacing of sturdi-wall brackets from a vendor, but they wrote me back saying I should ask a structural engineer.

Check what your local code allows. Also has to be something sheathing can marry to also. 4' OC is usual for post&beam.

 

[BooDeeRadley]

Check what your local code allows. Also has to be something sheathing can marry to also. 4' OC is usual for post&beam.

No code requirements where I live. No permits needed for construction, plumbing, etc. here, believe it or not.

I was thinking he did post frame, not post and beam. I'm going to build a post frame building, and don't want to sink posts in the ground. Sturdi-wall brackets look thoroughly decent. Poly protectors look dodgy to me. Don't really want to go with lumber link, timber linx (timber link is more a modern spin on timber framing, really). It would be very unwise to use strongtie's post bases for this purpose. Wanting this thing to last a heck of a lot longer than 40 years, and seen too many treated posts dug up that rotted under the 40 year mark.