Pouring footers

[lstinthot]

Anyone ever mis-calculate or receive the wrong amount of concrete when pouring a footer? Ordered concrete today to pour my moms footer and we came up short, we were the last delivery for the day so we could not have the truck go to the yard and get more. So now it is setting up overnight and we will try to pour the rest in the morning.

I can't believe I was off by about 2 yards, I ordered 5 yards. Boards bowed out a little is some spots. average depth is 20", 18" wide by 43 feet in length for that width. then a smaller run at 8" wide by 21 feet 20" deep.

Will the new concrete set up strong enough to the stuff that was poured today or are we scre*** and have to dig it up (little seat time if that is the case)? We poured 3500# with fiberglass for the footer. When we ran out, I made a key in the top of what was poured and had my brother get some rebar to put in vertically. We have one side left, about 14" by 21 feet by 18" wide left to pour.

We are building a metal building by American buildings.

 

[cmyoung2]

with the key and the rebar, there should be no problems. The sooner you finish the better.

 

[RDrancher]

It will be a cold joint and could result in a future hairline crack but with rebar stubbed out and tied to the rebar in the new pour it should be ok, especially pouring tomorrow. If it does crack and become a problem, a low viscosity epoxy can be injected into the crack from one side to mend it. The epoxy is stronger than the surrounding concrete.

You were correct on your calcs for yardage although I would have added a half yard to be be safe.

A sure-fire way to calculate any concrete in the future is:
Length in ft. X width in ft. X depth in inches divided by 324 = cubic yards

It's pretty well known that concrete companies add new concrete on top of leftovers from the last job the truck delivered to when delivering to a residential footing job. No inspector taking samples so they don't worry about it much. It's not right but they do it all the time. It's most likely that the driver miscalculated what he had left over or possibly the batch plant just plain screwed up. I'd call the concrete company with your measurements and calculations and ask them why you ran short. If it were my hard earned money (and it has been before) I'd be making that call.

 

[KennyG]

Keep the "raw" surface of the concrete wet. It will probably bond OK as long as it doesn't completely dry out. Cover it and lightly spray with water if the surface appears to be be drying. (Don't get it wet enough that the water runs, that will weaken it.)

 

[JB4310]

A footing as we call it here, is typically under a foundation wall in conventional home construction. Or below grade as in piers etc
In that situation a cold joint in the footing would not be a problem, You do not want a cold joint in a foundation wall below grade or you will most likely have a water problem. No real structural concerns in residential construction.

Your building a structure on grade with no basement, I'm assuming. This footer is what the buildings sills will sit on? Doesn't really matter as long as like I said there will be no cold joint below grade (but above floor) where there will be storage/ living space.

You should have nothing to worry about.
Concrete foundations are so overkill, 1 linear foot of a typical foundation could support the entire structure.

JB

 

[CurlyDave]

I don't think you miscalculated, I think you were shorted on the concrete.

I would call the concrete company and ask them to send a representative out to measure the amount you got.

If they shorted you, the responsibility is theirs. Ask what they are going to do about it?

 

[lstinthot]

I don't think you miscalculated, I think you were shorted on the concrete.

I would call the concrete company and ask them to send a representative out to measure the amount you got.

If they shorted you, the responsibility is theirs. Ask what they are going to do about it?

That is kinda of what I figured.

 

[lstinthot]

A footing as we call it here, is typically under a foundation wall in conventional home construction. Or below grade as in piers etc

JB

the metal building we are putting up sits directly on the footing. We have to make a trough on the top of it for the sides to sit in. Then the building get bolted together in pieces, stood up in the trough. Once the whole building is up, we have to fill the trough with grout to secure the building. First time I ever saw something like this.

The reason for the deep footer/wall, is to get the building up off the ground. In pictures, it look like the footers and slab are a mono pour. Could not do that because of the grade. We built the frames up above grade so the inside of the building will be an extra foot of head room.

Thanks for all the replies.

Here is a link to what we are building.
Metal Garage, Steel Building Garage Kit, Metal & Steel Garage Kit, PreFab Building by U.S. Buidings

 

[arsenix2001]

How accurate was your depth and how bad was bowing alittle? Your almost dead on 5 yds for an exact measurement pour. If your measurements were off and you had bowing forms all over youd be amazed how much concrete it eats up. Just a thought, not saying the case. But i had that happen 10/1 over getting shorted by a truck. All my company did was pour structual retaining wall and structure foundations for almost 7 years.

 

[JB4310]

I don't think you miscalculated, I think you were shorted on the concrete.

I would call the concrete company and ask them to send a representative out to measure the amount you got.

If they shorted you, the responsibility is theirs. Ask what they are going to do about it?

Dave,
I agree he may of been shorted but...
You may get them to take pity on you and get the finish batch for free. but otherwise how would you prove how deep the footings were, dig under every linear foot?

the metal building we are putting up sits directly on the footing. We have to make a trough on the top of it for the sides to sit in. Then the building get bolted together in pieces, stood up in the trough. Once the whole building is up, we have to fill the trough with grout to secure the building. First time I ever saw something like this.

The reason for the deep footer/wall, is to get the building up off the ground. In pictures, it look like the footers and slab are a mono pour. Could not do that because of the grade. We built the frames up above grade so the inside of the building will be an extra foot of head room.

Thanks for all the replies.

Here is a link to what we are building.
Metal Garage, Steel Building Garage Kit, Metal & Steel Garage Kit, PreFab Building by U.S. Buidings

Sounds like an interesting configuration, very wind proof??
I don't have a clear picture in my mind of this, but like I mentioned, as long as you have no cold joints below grade out side and above grade inside you will have no problems.
Structural integrity is a non issue, I'm only concerned about possible water seepage.
JB

 

[cmyoung2]

I've got one of the US Steel buildings, put up just like you described. My foundation walls are raised to give more head room, poured floor after the walls, before I put the building up. Made it easy to use rolling scaffolding Mine is both chained every 2' to the foundation and grouted. Chained to prevent problems during construction, then grouted. We have some pretty good winds, no problems. I also put a 18'x6' grease pit inside, love it, though not as much as the bathroom:laughing:

 

[CurlyDave]

Dave,
I agree he may of been shorted but...
You may get them to take pity on you and get the finish batch for free. but otherwise how would you prove how deep the footings were, dig under every linear foot?...

I think I could easily make the case for being seriously shorted on concrete by merely digging down to the bottom of the footer (next to the footer) in a few places. Then average the depths found.

As I understand it, the one he didn't try to pour at all is almost a yard, so the one that should have been 4 yards took over 5. No pictures, but that seems like a lot of bowing.

Now I agree that ordering an extra yard is good practice, and when I pour I have about 5-10% of the pour available as sacks, so I can make up shortages in an emergency, in addition to the extra yard.

It really depends on the situation, but if we are looking at a 2" overlay with a cold joint, I would be asking the concrete supplier to pick up the cost of jackhammering and cleaning out the footings to a depth where an 6" overlay would be poured. Jackhammering should be easy in a fresh pour, and if enough rebar was added to the initial concrete, a nice rough surface should give a much better bond. Add one of the acrylic bonding agents, and it would be a lot better.

Depending on how many suppliers are in the area, I might even growl something about small claims court. But if this is is the only practical supplier, then that is not a good idea -- just suck it up and absorb the cost.

* * * * * * *

My best friend, who passed a few years back, was a mechanical/structural engineer who supervised concrete pours on a weekly basis. He knew geometry and how to measure, and he felt that he was shorted on 50-75% of the times he poured. Of course he had enough experience to order extra, and was a good enough customer that they would always send out an extra truck if necessary.

 

[JB4310]

I agree a 2 inch cap or overlay would not be a good thing especially in a northern region, due to freeze/ thaw cycles. but I don't think that's the case. OP referred to one side left, 14" x 21' x 18" wide. To me that sounds like 14" deep??

JB

 

[lstinthot]

I agree a 2 inch cap or overlay would not be a good thing especially in a northern region, due to freeze/ thaw cycles. but I don't think that's the case. OP referred to one side left, 14" x 21' x 18" wide. To me that sounds like 14" deep??

JB

It was 14 inches deep left to pour, we had a light rain over the night, had the truck come first thing this morning and finished the pour. Part of the area where the two pours meet will be close to the frost line. I am planning on raising the ground in that area now so it puts it well below the frost line.

The top was very rough with the key and rebar every foot. Hope it holds , we will probable have the concrete company come out and see how much they shorted us, will not take much digging on the outside of the footer to show the depth, mom just wanted it done.

 

[Hooked_on_HP]

Anyone ever mis-calculate or receive the wrong amount of concrete when pouring a footer? Ordered concrete today to pour my moms footer and we came up short, we were the last delivery for the day so we could not have the truck go to the yard and get more. So now it is setting up overnight and we will try to pour the rest in the morning.

I can't believe I was off by about 2 yards, I ordered 5 yards. Boards bowed out a little is some spots. average depth is 20", 18" wide by 43 feet in length for that width. then a smaller run at 8" wide by 21 feet 20" deep.

Will the new concrete set up strong enough to the stuff that was poured today or are we scre*** and have to dig it up (little seat time if that is the case)? We poured 3500# with fiberglass for the footer. When we ran out, I made a key in the top of what was poured and had my brother get some rebar to put in vertically. We have one side left, about 14" by 21 feet by 18" wide left to pour.

We are building a metal building by American buildings.

This is where you came up short. If your actual depth averaged 22" and your boards bowed a inch on each side you now have a footing that is 22" x 20". I work for a concrete company. I sometimes have to go deal with customers who think they were shorted. 99% of the time the grade is off. People don't realize how much extra concrete an extra inch takes. Gaps under the forms also alows extra concrete to excape.even if it only comes to the outside of the forms that adds an extra 1 3/4 to the width on each side. Yes, some time mistakes happen and people get shorted. But double check your measurements before you call and say YOU SHORTED ME.
Bill

 

[flusher]

Shouldn't be a problem since its a footing mostly below ground and (I assume) there is still some rebar to pour around. Keep the surface of the concrete wet until you can get another load.
I ordered about 6.5 yards when I poured footings for my carport (72 ft x 12" wide x 18" deep (average). Had about 1/2 yard left over (made concrete weights from the excess).

 

[BHD]

formed work is about the only place one can really challenge if your shorted,

I was on a job about 40 miles away from the plant and we ended up about 1/2 yard short on a small floor we were pouring, rather and deal with a cold joint, we notched the screed board about 1/4" and re drug the slab down and was able to recover the needed amount of cement for the corner,

on floors it is easy to lose a lot in a little mis measurements, and usually when using 2x4 for forms figure 4" instead of 3 1/2" (same with 2x6 figure a full 6" ) some of the cement compress the fill and foot steps seem to eat up a lot,

but to end up with 2 yards short on footers of a 5 yard pour seems like a lot,

 

[Stimw]

I've poured a lot of concrete and even drove the truck in the past. It is very easy to be off on depth measurements. I did a 40' X 65' slab and leveled it with a laser and it was off by 2 yards.
I poured a 3' X 36' extention on my patio last week, first pic.
In the second pic you can see a 4' X 8' slab next to the pour. I picked up that slab with my forklift and moved it out of the way and back to it's current location where I leveled and washed it back in. I poured that 4' X 8' slab 5 years ago with bag mix and a mixer. I didn't have enough and poured half one day and the other half the next. It is 2 x 4 depth and has no rebar or other reinforcement. I have driven one R-4 tire of my 3510 Branson over that slab numerous times and it still hasn't cracked! I think you will be OK.

 

[Trkrd]

Keep the "raw" surface of the concrete wet. It will probably bond OK as long as it doesn't completely dry out. Cover it and lightly spray with water if the surface appears to be be drying. (Don't get it wet enough that the water runs, that will weaken it.)

Spray sugar water on it if you have to wait some time for another load. A natural retardent that will keep it from drying for quite some time.

 

[lstinthot]

Shouldn't be a problem since its a footing mostly below ground and (I assume) there is still some rebar to pour around. Keep the surface of the concrete wet until you can get another load.
I ordered about 6.5 yards when I poured footings for my carport (72 ft x 12" wide x 18" deep (average). Had about 1/2 yard left over (made concrete weights from the excess).

View attachment 247042View attachment 247043View attachment 247044

Did you dig and dump in a trailer or truck. There is no evidence you even dug down for 18" depth. Nice clean pour.