Power Beyond Option Questions

[yooperdave]

Can someone explain the difference between power beyond, and just adding additional hydraulic remotes?

I am pricing tractors with loaders and 4 in 1 buckets.

The 4 in 1 bucket requires additional hydraulics. Which is the best way to achieve this? I may still require a pair of remotes to operate a pull behind implement in addition to having full use of the 4 in 1 bucket.

Can I get a pair of mid mount remotes to be closer to the bucket?

Is it best to get a bobcat style quick attach at the end of the loader to maximize my future options? Are bobcat attachments noted for quality and value?

Thanks in advance.

Yooper Dave

 

[jrlichina]

Power beyond is a provision on a control valve that allows you to power additional valves down stream in the system. This is a port on the valve that is the high pressure carry over port. Example, FEL valves have a PB port. The tractor's pump supplies the high pressure fluild to the IN port on the valve, then the PB port is then connected back to the system to power the 3-point valve(some systems may have this order reversed). Now the remotes question. Most tractors have an option of adding remotes(usually rear mounted). This is done by using tractor specific "stackable" valves that are added to the tractor and have nicely located levers usually found in the fender. This then allows the placement of remote hydraulic connections elsewhere on the tractor, like in the rear, mid or even front mounted. Now here's where you can get confused. If your tractor doesn't have remote capability you can use the PB provision from say a loader valve to power another valve used to provide remote hydraulics. Example, I have a BX2200 that I added the factory BX22 rear hydraulics. This is basically a loop spliced into the PB circuit. I then use this as my source for another valve to provide rear remotes. Now this one valve if it had PB could also power yet another valve. Adding factory remotes can be very expensive, it depends on the manufacturer. The actual style of quick couplers is completely up to you based on what attachments you plan on using. Also one thing to note. Many skid steers have/make use of high flow auxialary hydraulics to run attachments with hydraulic motors. So if your tractor's system doesn't provide enough flow(GPM) these attachments will not operate correctly. I hope this all helps.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

yooperdave:

"Power Beyond" is a JD marketing term.

Either the control valves for hydraulic flow are on the tractor (such as rear remotes) or on the implement (such as a BH). So-called power beyond is a fancy marketing hype term for where the control valves are located. Where ever they are located, flow comes from the tractor pump and you have to tap into that flow which can be done in various places on different brands. If you visualize an electrical ciruit hooked up to a battery with the positive side of the battery as the pump, a switch as equivalent to the hydraulic control valve and the ground as the return flow to the reservoir you will get the picture. So-called power beyond is merely JD's term for where you are hooking into the circuit.

To repeat, "Power Beyond" is a JD marketing term. I have actually seen posts on this site where people are lead (mislead?) into believing they are getting more power (more hydraulic flow) when they get "power beyond." You've got to give JD credit though for their marketing skills.

Regarding the skid steer type hook-ups, my own preference is yes (I have it on my loader arms). Gives you more options for pallet forks, different buckets (such as cement buckets), etc.

JEH

 

[Bird]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( "Power Beyond" is a JD marketing term )</font>

I have no idea when or where the term originated (nor do I care), but at this time, at least, I don't know how John Deere would have anything to do with it, since all the other brands (OEM and after market) I'm familiar with also have power beyond ports on their valves. And yes, you could tap in elsewhere, but why? The power beyond ports make it so simple.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Bird:

So far as I'm aware, JD is the only company that uses the term "power beyond" to describe the access ports built in to their hyrdraulic systems. Of course, they all (or I guess they all do) have such ports. The point was how they are described. I don't believe NH or KUB use that term to describe such obviously useful ports made available to tap into the hydraulic flow.

My quarrel with the use of the term by JD is it can mislead people into believing it is something other than simple access ports (which all, or I guess all, manufacturers provide). I have, as I said above, actually seen posts on this site where people are lead (mislead?) into believing they are getting more power (more hydraulic flow) when they get "power beyond."

You've got to give JD credit though for their marketing skills. If you question my comment, I believe a visit to your local JD, NH & KUB dealers and examination of their literature would resolve the question. Perhaps I am mistaken. Perhaps not. Don't take my word for it, check it out yourself.

JEH

 

[RobS]

JEH, I just put a Power Beyond kit on my tractor but never considered that it could actually add power to my tractor. Nothing in any of Deere's literature would have me believe it is anything more than hydraulic power available at the rear of the tractor.

To the original question, Power Beyond is like an extension cord. It gets power to a different location on the tractor but it's all or nothing depending on whether or not you're plugged into it.

Rear remotes on the other hand, provide controlled hydraulic power. This can be either on/off or proportional and selective like your loader valve.

You can add valving to a Power Beyond circuit to provide remotes. Kind of like the switch on the lamp you plug into the extension cord /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[yooperdave]

Is it more cost effective to just get the added remotes initially and be done with it, or is there another reason to get the power beyond package, or have some people bought the added remotes and the power beynd package?

Thanks

Yooper Dave

 

[JerryG]

John,
I will just say what I know. AGCO's companies (Massey Ferguson) has used the term "Power Beyond" for years. Many valve companies has also used the term for years. (ex. Cross) I will also say that JD is the king of marketing.

 

[jrlichina]

Power Beyond IS NOT a JD Marketing term! PB in fluid power is defined as the high pressure carry over part of a control circuit. JD just happens to use tha valve that can have the PB port plugged. Their power beyond kit replaces the plug with a special port adapter allowing the use of the high pressure carry over from the valve to operate other valves down stream. Power beyond is an extra option allowed on most valves(mono block or stackable). The only way to power more than one valve that is not part of the "stackable" type requires PB capability. Stackable valves can be of two types parallel or series this dictates if more than one circuit can be operated simultaniously. I REPEAT POWER BEYOND IS NOT a JD marketing term. If you are not well educated in the field of hydraulics it's best not to mislead other by making a claim such as that. And yes I do have a degree in fluid power, as well as, extensive practical use/experience. Please feel free to check out any text books on fluid power to see for yourself.

 

[markie61]

Quoting the NH TC service manual:

"Port 7 (PB for power beyond) brings flow pressure back from the front remote."

Maybe it's like Kleenex for facial tissue, Jeep for 4x4, and Xerox for photocopy: power beyond has become the generic term....

Mark

Mark