Power comparison

[Threepoint]

The front axle pivots in the center allowing the tires to move up-down, If the left tire goes down, the right tire goes up. So even if the front having additional weight ( a few hundred lbs) how would that help with stability. The front axle allows the tractor to follow the terrain. All the side-side stability is gained from the rear being ridged. If the fronts were ridged, then you would gain stability, but a lot of people would have 3 tires on the ground a lot of the time and that surly is not a good idea.

The idea of having all the tires on the ground all the time is so you have better steering, braking and better traction with a MFWD. Any time that you have only 3 tires on the ground you loose efficiency of all 3. This would be a problem on any non even surface if both axles were ridged.

I hope that this helps.

Thanks Brian. That clarifies your meaning. I agree that the pivot design of the front axle's attachment to the chassis reduces the benefit of loading the front tires relative to side-to-side stability. But it does not eliminate it. Here's my reasoning. The axle is not attached by a perfect gimbal, so even within the limits of the pivot range, the increased mass at the wheels will add a dampening effect not only to the vertical rotation of the axle around its own central axis, but also to side-to-side roll, or yaw, of the chassis. It will also dampen wheel bounce over rough terrain.

The benefit becomes much greater, of course, once the limits of axle-pivot have been reached, as in a severe tilt scenario. At that point, ballasted front tires will reduce the risk of side-to-side roll over. I've yet to hear of a tractor rolling onto its side without both high-side wheels leaving the ground.

Additional side-to-side stability comes from the increased ground reaction force of the ballasted front wheels. This increases tread-to-ground friction (as well as actual tread bite into softer material), reducing side-to-side slippage at the same time that it increases traction in the direction of travel.

I'm not suggesting that we all add ballast to our front wheels. I don't with mine, for my uses. But I disagree that it would do nothing for side-to-side stability.

 

[MtnViewRanch]

Thanks Brian. That clarifies your meaning. I agree that the pivot design of the front axle's attachment to the chassis reduces the benefit of loading the front tires relative to side-to-side stability. But it does not eliminate it. Here's my reasoning. The axle is not attached by a perfect gimbal, so even within the limits of the pivot range, the increased mass at the wheels will add a dampening effect not only to the vertical rotation of the axle around its own central axis, but also to side-to-side roll, or yaw, of the chassis. It will also dampen wheel bounce over rough terrain.

The benefit becomes much greater, of course, once the limits of axle-pivot have been reached, as in a severe tilt scenario. At that point, ballasted front tires will reduce the risk of side-to-side roll over. I've yet to hear of a tractor rolling onto its side without both high-side wheels leaving the ground.

Additional side-to-side stability comes from the increased ground reaction force of the ballasted front wheels. This increases tread-to-ground friction (as well as actual tread bite into softer material), reducing side-to-side slippage at the same time that it increases traction in the direction of travel.

I'm not suggesting that we all add ballast to our front wheels. I don't with mine, for my uses. But I disagree that it would do nothing for side-to-side stability.

I believe that for our generic figuring, it does next to nothing to help from rolling over on your side. Yes some tractors front axle does not pivot very far, maybe only 15* and then it would help for sure, but most are 20*-25* and the tractor is on its side with those types of angles.

We are probably going to need to agree to disagree on this, I know that I have already spent to much time on it.

Hope you have a great day.

 

[paulfun9]

You say that it is not right..?
I had a Mahindra that was mechanical linkage... It took a lot of leg to move all that stuff... Pushed very hard..
The drive by wire pedals move very easy and makes it more user-friendly... If the half a second delay is not right then get the old leg strong setup.

I figure if I am too Frail to push a mechanical linkage I will just stay bed ridden till I get better or die!

We are both elderly and my wife who has never in her life weighed more than 130LBS was the first to complain about the lack of feel the drive by wire system of the NX gave the operator and she still doesn't seem to have a problem pushing the HST pedal of any of our other tractors but again she isn't a wimp, just small and petite.

Yes I did buy a tractor without that amount of lag and am very happy I did! Nothing against people who think that having the new tech on everything is great but if they cant make it work as it should then why bother. I would figure pushing twice the distance to get the same amount of operating speed would actually be more tiresome than having to push a little harder but less distance. I also have a much better feel for the older HST pedal set ups and haven't torn up anything I didn't want to even when operating in 2 wheel drive. My friend with his NX doesn't understand why he is always tearing everything up in 2 wheel drive and has had to operate almost exclusively in 4 to avoid it. Maybe there is something your missing in usage compared to me but I like what I like and am not blinded by tech like many around are.

 

[hillwood]

I figure if I am too Frail to push a mechanical linkage I will just stay bed ridden till I get better or die!

We are both elderly and my wife who has never in her life weighed more than 130LBS was the first to complain about the lack of feel the drive by wire system of the NX gave the operator and she still doesn't seem to have a problem pushing the HST pedal of any of our other tractors but again she isn't a wimp, just small and petite.

Yes I did buy a tractor without that amount of lag and am very happy I did! Nothing against people who think that having the new tech on everything is great but if they cant make it work as it should then why bother. I would figure pushing twice the distance to get the same amount of operating speed would actually be more tiresome than having to push a little harder but less distance. I also have a much better feel for the older HST pedal set ups and haven't torn up anything I didn't want to even when operating in 2 wheel drive. My friend with his NX doesn't understand why he is always tearing everything up in 2 wheel drive and has had to operate almost exclusively in 4 to avoid it. Maybe there is something your missing in usage compared to me but I like what I like and am not blinded by tech like many around are.

Binded by tech?
I'm happy that you have a tractor that works right. What did you get?

 

[LD48750]

My 1947 2N has no electronics on it & still runs just fine.
When things quit working, they can be fixed.
Will you be able to fix that bad circuit board in 70 years from now?

I don't like fly by wire.

 

[hillwood]

My 1947 2N has no electronics on it & still runs just fine.
When things quit working, they can be fixed.
Will you be able to fix that bad circuit board in 70 years from now?

I don't like fly by wire.

What do you have in your vehicle that you are driving? Cars and trucks have the drive by wire, been on them for about 15 years now.

 

[paulfun9]

What do you have in your vehicle that you are driving? Cars and trucks have the drive by wire, been on them for about 15 years now.

Yes they do and to get a pedal that is as responsive as a cable you have to buy electronic gadgets to modify them and still get no feel from the pedal.

A close family member at the age of 70 could not figure out why his supposedly superior front wheel drive car could not make it out to the main road from where he lived. Confused because he had lived there his entire life and had never gotten stuck getting out with anything he ever owned. Turns out take the fly by wire away and give a Morse push pull cable and he all of a sudden had a feel for what the car was doing and was able to get out from that point on. Just because they have them on does not mean they are better or does it validate their use.
By the way that car was AWD also and still couldn't do as good as a car from the 50's, 60's 70's or 80's until we got rid of the fly by wire system.
I took it off my truck and gained 2 MPG overall reprogrammed the shift points/line pressure and now even have a better smoother driving truck. SO I wonder what is so great about it?
My Father always asked if everyone else stuck their hand in S--- would you? My answer then was no and still is!

 

[MinnesotaEric]

Absolutely helps without any doubt, although adding to the fronts (which I have done on both of my utility tractors:thumbsup only aids in traction. You gain no side-side stability from adding weight to the front axle.

Traction. Heh. I have zero sideways traction in snow.

 

[hillwood]

Traction. Heh. I have zero sideways traction in snow.

Try some chains man!

 

[hillwood]

Yes they do and to get a pedal that is as responsive as a cable you have to buy electronic gadgets to modify them and still get no feel from the pedal.

A close family member at the age of 70 could not figure out why his supposedly superior front wheel drive car could not make it out to the main road from where he lived. Confused because he had lived there his entire life and had never gotten stuck getting out with anything he ever owned. Turns out take the fly by wire away and give a Morse push pull cable and he all of a sudden had a feel for what the car was doing and was able to get out from that point on. Just because they have them on does not mean they are better or does it validate their use.
By the way that car was AWD also and still couldn't do as good as a car from the 50's, 60's 70's or 80's until we got rid of the fly by wire system.
I took it off my truck and gained 2 MPG overall reprogrammed the shift points/line pressure and now even have a better smoother driving truck. SO I wonder what is so great about it?
My Father always asked if everyone else stuck their hand in S--- would you? My answer then was no and still is!

Where would we be today if our elders thought the same way... Go ride your horse home then!