Power Steering Problem Not Solved

/ Power Steering Problem Not Solved
  • Thread Starter
#21  
Thanks Steve. Although the problem occurs mostly when using the rotary cutter it also happens with the box blade when transporting in high range. If there is anything I could change to eliminate the problem believe me I would do it. By the way, the last time my dealer saw my place was on delivery day, and he has not offered to come to my place to find the problem.

When I mow the tail wheel definitely has some weight on it and goes in a straight line until I turn, although it will come off the ground and twist around on ueven ground.

If you're saying that what I feel is the tailwheel binding on uneven ground then I can tell you that's not what it is. If I'm doing something that is starving the hydraulics I can buy that, if I could only figure out what it is. To my knowledge the dealer has not readjusted anything on the cutter when the are "testing" it.

I set the cutter up per Rhino specs - that is, the tail wheel is on the ground but is not holding up the entire weight of the cutter - there is about 2" of up/down play in the front to allow for uneven ground. The front of the cutter is about 3/4 inch lower than the rear. So, yes, the tractor is holding the cutter up off the ground somewhat, but the wheel is always on the ground on smoot terrain (most of what I mow is relatively smooth). While mowing sometimes I notice the leading left and right edges of the cutter start digging into the ground. I raise and lower the cutter and its stops digging in for a while. I think the 3PH is leaking down slightly so I have to raise it up every now and then. It has always done this and has not concerned me, and raising it so that it doesn't dig in does not fix the steering issue.

The other thing is that the steering works perfectly until the tractor gets hot - that is about 1/2 the way up the heat guage, so the way the cutter is set I don't believe is giving a mechanical effect to the way the steering feels, but could only be contributing to a hydraulic problem.

The dealer replaced the steering assembly and showed me the old one - it has screw like thing in it. Of course I don't know if they lubricated it interally or not.

Yesterday I used the cutter an hour, then took a couple hours off, then mowed another hour. No power steering problems whatsoever. It usually takes 2 hours before it shows up, and sometimes longer.

I have often wondered if the frequency of turning on my place causes it to fail at my place but not at the dealers. The field the dealer uses to mow is very flat, very large and rectangular with no trees. Not much turning at all. My field is odd shaped, has some holes, several trees to dodge, etc.



Alan L., TX
 
/ Power Steering Problem Not Solved
  • Thread Starter
#22  
Art, thats a good idea. At least it would prove it is heat related if it fails quicker.

Alan L., TX
 
/ Power Steering Problem Not Solved #23  
Alan,
Had to do some brush cutting yesterday. It only gets above 85 here in VT on rare occasions, and yesterday was only 78-80 tops, with a nice breeze. Figured I try to duplicate your problem just the same, so did some normal cutting in M at 2500 for an hour, then did some heavy cutting, same settings, but had to back the cutter between trees in soft ground, so was doing pseudo K turns in the mud for a good 30min. Full turn to right then left forward, raise cutter and back it in, drop cutter and drive it out, raise cutter, right left...No steering problems. Temp gauge only went to 1/3up. Went along the drainage creek, can't see the drop off so did that for 150yards doing the same thing, then went and cut some more field in an expanding figure of 8 pattern. Couldn't create your problem.
Guess I can't offer any help in deciding if it's the temp, or the tractor, but I can say that the 3pt hitch should not leak down. You have position control, so if it did start to "leak down", the position sensor would trigger the hydraulics and lift it back up. Unless your lift control isgetting moved. If it is "leaking down", then clearly there is something wrong with your tractor hydraulics, and maybe the lift leak and the steering problem are related!
Good luck, and let us know what happens.
Todd
 
/ Power Steering Problem Not Solved #24  
Kubmech
<font color=blue>FEL installed, try mowing with FEL removed, see if there's a difference.</font color=blue>
It does not make a difference. Mid Mount mower without FEL. Rotary Cutter with FEL.
<font color=blue>What tires are you running.</font color=blue>
Turf tires.
<font color=blue>When the steering acts up (when loader installed) lift the front end off the ground and see if steering changes.</font color=blue>
FEL and 3PH work normal.
<font color=blue>When acting up, slowly turn steering wheel one way, then the other. Any difference? any noise or buzzing?</font color=blue>
Buzzing at 1000 RPM’s and hard steering. At higher RPMs get no power steering at times.
<font color=blue>If possible, check ps pump temp, and trans fluid temp.</font color=blue>
210 degrees
<font color=blue>Pull the trans dipstick note if there's any oil foaming.</font color=blue>
Thought I saw foam on dip stick. But next time I checked did not see it.
<font color=blue>Is your 3PH in the fully raised position?</font color=blue>
Problem shows up with 3PH around 4 to 5. Just need to get Hydraulic oil hot.
<font color=blue>Has anyone had the problem while not mowing and/or with mower removed? Belly or rear mount.</font color=blue>
I have had problem show up while using implements that do not require PTO.
<font color=blue>In 4x4 or 2x4? any difference.</font color=blue>
It does not make a difference.
Hope this give you some indication of problem.


18-30594-ronssig2.gif
 
/ Power Steering Problem Not Solved
  • Thread Starter
#25  
Well if the leaking down is a problem I guess I'm screwed because I've never mentioned it and my tractor is out of warranty. The only time I notice it is when using the cutter and it gradually starts digging into the ground. I will give the dealer this bit of info in case it helps diagnose the steering problem.

Alan L., TX
 
/ Power Steering Problem Not Solved
  • Thread Starter
#26  
I rarely have a problem when the temp is below 90, and don't have complete failure until the temp reaches 97 or so. There might be a lot of tractors being used up north that never will fail because your tractors are not asked to perform in the extreme heat the way ours are down here in Texas. The fact probably is that my problem is rare and I'm just lucky to have it with my tractor.

Alan L., TX
 
/ Power Steering Problem Not Solved #27  
My cutter goes down and starts to dig in, but it's because my toplink unscrews from the vibration and gets longer and longer.
 
/ Power Steering Problem Not Solved #28  
I do believe the heat might be a factor but it goes between the two pieces I mentioned as in the service manual for trouble shooting it gave the relief valve and control. I think it is the relief valve as that could give you a varing condition.
 
/ Power Steering Problem Not Solved #29  
What am I missing here?? Alan says that when he is using the cutter it starts digging in the ground. Doesn't the 2710 have position control? Shouldn't the Position control keep the implement at the desired height? If the implement gradually lowers into the ground, the whole hydraulic system must be failing. Alan, If you stop your engine with the 3 point in the up position with an implement on it does it creep down? If this is an extreme problem that keeps the pump pumping oil under pressure all the time it could be the cause of his oil overheating. 210 degrees is WAY too hot IMO.
 
/ Power Steering Problem Not Solved #30  
the internals of the power steering box and outlest of the pump. May have been made too big. Causing them to expand when hot and starving the unit of oil. Just replace the pump and steering box. that should work. Had it happing on aircraft

Alex (B8200/HST/4WD/FEL/MidM/Tiller<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by b8200hst4wd on 07/09/01 09:10 PM (server time).</FONT></P>
 
/ Power Steering Problem Not Solved #31  
I'm with Gene on this, the hitch shouldn't be leaking down. If it is, I doubt you're screwed! My guess is that you have a valve that is leaking somewhere allowing the hitch to drop down. So you're not screwed, you're on to something.

If your hydraulics are always fighting a leaking valve, eventually the pump and oil will overheat. The question is how do you find out where the problem is. Kubmech, is this a reasonable hypothesis and worth checking on? And if so, how would you do so?
Todd
 
/ Power Steering Problem Not Solved #32  
I'm starting to wonder the same thing. if there is a seal blown on the 3 point piston the position control will continually try to keep up with the loss of fluid and maintain hitch position. If the mower isn't being run so the 3 point is in the full down position (relaxed) including box blade. I believe the hyd fluid is in a constant bypass wether past the leak or against the relief valve (feel like I'd have to be there to verify both possibilities) the fluid would definitely run alot hotter than it should be. Just as a refresher, Alan has had the steering unit replaced, and now his problem is worse than before. I'm personally wondering about the condition of the ps pump at this point, but unfortunately Texas is a bit out of my area. The mention of the 3 point drift problem is new to me (don't remember Alan mentioning this before) but could definitely be a contributing factor depending on the exact nature of the problem.
 
/ Power Steering Problem Not Solved #33  
Ron, may be getting closer, does it always show up while using a rear mounted implement (pto run or not)? 210 is HOT! Do you run your belly mount all the way down (3 point at lowest position)?
 
/ Power Steering Problem Not Solved
  • Thread Starter
#34  
The leak down problem was seemingly so inconsequential I have never mentioned it to anyone. However it has happened, only with the cutter, from day one when the tractor was new. The leakdown is so slow that the only time I notice it is when I look at the previous pass and see two ruts where the leading edges of the sides of the cutter have dug in. I can simply raise the cutter and lower it back down against the stop as I have set it (about a "5") and its OK for a few rounds. I really never thought much about it. maybe you guys are on to something.

My tractor is at the dealer now (again) so I will call tomorrow and get them to check it. The reason the dealer has it is that they forgot to fix the leaky fuel tank hose when they had it before. They caused it when they replaced the steering assembly and left off a hose or something so it leaks when I fill it up. I would have fixed it myself if I could figure out how to get to it without pulling the engine.



Alan L., TX
 
/ Power Steering Problem Not Solved #35  
Hell replace the Hydralic pump may not be pumping correctly that would make 3 pt drift



Alex (B8200/HST/4WD/FEL/MidM/Tiller
 
/ Power Steering Problem Not Solved
  • Thread Starter
#36  
I called the dealer service manager and mentioned the leak down problem, could it be related to the steering issue, etc. He said some leakdown is normal ("this means the tractor is operating as designed /w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif") and that it can have nothing to do with the steering. Blah blah blah.......

Alan L., TX
 
/ Power Steering Problem Not Solved #37  
Alan,
I have a B2150D (gear-shift, 4wd) w/ FEL. I mowed last night for about two hours. I use a 5' finish mower. It was 93 degrees and I was running the tractor hard by cutting taller grass and going faster than I would normally. The temp gauge went higher than I ever saw it go. It went a little past 3/4. I don't like it to be that hot! Someone earlier said that their old B2150 had the same problem you've been having. I remembered that last night and when the temp gauge was at it's hottest, I stopped the tractor and took it out of gear. I released the clutch to allow the blades to spin up (still idling). This is not going to make you happy, but just sitting still, idling, blades moving, hotter than I've ever had it before, the power steering still worked great. I raised the FEL and mower all the way and still not a power steering problem. I feel for you and your problem. I would hammer the dealer and Kubota and become a thorn in their side! I'm sure you love your tractor and would probably have another one. I'm sure this is a quality problem on some part (I'm guessing some relief valve). Hopefully the dealer and Kubota will bend at some point and fix the problem or get you a new tractor. GOOD LUCK!!!
 
/ Power Steering Problem Not Solved #38  
Alan,
I don't know about the leak down being normal. As far as I can tell, my B21 does not have any leak down. It would be interesting to see if some of us could leave an implement raised for the night and measure any drop. I only get to my tractor on weekends, but will give it a try. Maybe someone else can try it sooner. We need to get to the bottom of this steering thing for you.

MarkV
 
/ Power Steering Problem Not Solved #39  
Loader and backhoe leakdown is normal. 3 point hitch leakdown is not. Most 3 points hold position for a long time, the leakdown you're describing sounds excessive to me. Pick up your mower and watch it, if you can see it drifting down there is a problem. I'd even venture to say it'll hold all night.
Hopefully a few others will try this to verify results.
 
/ Power Steering Problem Not Solved #40  
I don't think my L2250 3 point hitch will ever leak down. I've inadvertantly left it partially up all night with a brush hog on it with no leakdown.
 

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