Power steering unable to steer with full bucket and no movement. Is that normal?

[erkme73]

May just be a case of extreme noobness, but today was the first time I had the bucket filled with 1/2" gravel. It was heavy, but not enough to lift the rear tires off the ground. When I got to the point where I wanted to drop the load, I needed to inch to the left. As I tried to turn the steering wheel, I got the wheels to change direction by maybe a couple of degrees. But without moving forward/backward, they would not change the angle any further.

Is that normal? I've never had that happen before (without load) so I'm not quite sure what to expect.

 

[jmh1783]

I've had a 2000 lb tote of water on the forks with 850 lbs on the back. The steering was stiff, but it did turn.

 

[erkme73]

Well, ok, I suppose it might have turned if I had manually forced it, but clearly the assist had stalled out. I wonder if I should have just forced it...

 

[linuxman51]

it will get harder to steer with a lot of load way out front.

 

[jmh1783]

hard to judge without being there. Mine still had assist but it wasn't effortless like it is unloaded.

 

[fatjay]

I don't have a mahindra, but i've been around quite a few tractors and haven't had that issue. Might get stiff, but definitely not no movement. If you're turning the wheel, but the tires aren't turning, that sounds like there may be internal leaking, the hydraulic fluid has to go somewhere.

 

[Billrog]

Keep tires inflated to the max and if your in soft soil sitting still with a heavy bucket there's a lot of resistance doesn't hurt to move the tractor a bit when turning.

 

[mikeman1]

I think the power steering runs off teh hydraulic oil/hst oil. i wonder if raising the throttle would help move more oil for the steering?

 

[erkme73]

Good suggestions. Thanks for the replies. When it happened the steering wheel was locked - that is, it wasn't turning with the wheels not changing direction. I was at about 1/3 throttle, so I ran it up to full RPM, and it made no difference. The only thing that got it moving relatively resistance-free was forward/reverse movement (even just slight).

It really felt like it does if you try to move the wheel when the engine is off. If it happens again, I'll try to put some tail into it and see if it really offers the same level of resistance as an unpowered engine.

 

[4570Man]

As long as mine is moving it'll steer and usually never gives trouble in dirt. If I'm lifting max lift I can't steer while sitting still on asphalt. I'm not sure how your steering works, but my tractors are 100 percent hydraulic. You can't force that. Once it gives up you're not steering where you could force something with a gear box assuming you're strong enough.

 

[Wagtail]

My first question would be what were you using as a counterweight off of the 3PH?

 

[mcfarmall]

Slightly OT but not really. You just learned how/why your tie rod ends wear out on vehicles. It takes a great amount of force to steer wheels that aren't rolling and especially so when you have a loader bucket full of sand (or a huge snowplow hanging off the front of your 4x4 truck). This is how I do it...rarely do I turn the steering wheel of any vehicle when it is stationary. Even a small amount of motion will put less stress on the steering system components. When I back into the turnaround in my driveway, I "pre-steer" the wheels as I'm backing into the spot. For example, I begin backing straight out of the garage and then turn my wheels to the right to back into the turnaround, before I come to a stop to go forward, I "pre-steer" the wheels to the left so they are now pointing in the direction I want to go when I shift into Drive.

I honestly believe this is how my tie rod ends can last the life of my truck but they only last 75k on my wife's car.

 

[Deere Dude]

The wheels should be able to turn even with the bucket full.

A possibility might be there is an obstruction by the tires. I would try to move up and back a little while turning to keep the tie rods from getting stressed to much, like mcfarmall suggested. That seems to be a good idea and I practice that also if possible.

Make sure the tires are full to max air. Try to keep weight on the rear and weight prescribed by owners manual while bucketing.

 

[erkme73]

My first question would be what were you using as a counterweight off of the 3PH?

Contrary to how I normally run, this time I had nothing. I had that in mind when lifting the first bucket, and I was concerned about the rear tires coming up. I had not considered that even if that didn't happen, it may result in negative consequences. The rear tires are ballasted.

Slightly OT but not really. You just learned how/why your tie rod ends wear out on vehicles. It takes a great amount of force to steer wheels that aren't rolling and especially so when you have a loader bucket full of sand (or a huge snowplow hanging off the front of your 4x4 truck). This is how I do it...rarely do I turn the steering wheel of any vehicle when it is stationary. Even a small amount of motion will put less stress on the steering system components. When I back into the turnaround in my driveway, I "pre-steer" the wheels as I'm backing into the spot. For example, I begin backing straight out of the garage and then turn my wheels to the right to back into the turnaround, before I come to a stop to go forward, I "pre-steer" the wheels to the left so they are now pointing in the direction I want to go when I shift into Drive.

I honestly believe this is how my tie rod ends can last the life of my truck but they only last 75k on my wife's car.

I distinctly remember my dad ingraining that 'pre-steer' technique when teaching me how to drive 30+ years ago. It didn't have to do with tie-rods, but wear on the steer tires (and difficulty turning the steering wheel in non-power-steering equipped cars). Ever since, I do the same. With the tractor, on soil, and with the need to scoot over just an inch or two, while minimizing forward movement, I figured it would make little difference. But I absolutely see your point.

The wheels should be able to turn even with the bucket full.

A possibility might be there is an obstruction by the tires. I would try to move up and back a little while turning to keep the tie rods from getting stressed to much, like mcfarmall suggested. That seems to be a good idea and I practice that also if possible.

Make sure the tires are full to max air. Try to keep weight on the rear and weight prescribed by owners manual while bucketing.

You've just reinforced why I really do need to order a manual. I bought my 2555 from the original owner, who had sold the tow vehicle with the manual in it.

 

[Reb954]

May just be a case of extreme noobness, but today was the first time I had the bucket filled with 1/2" gravel. It was heavy, but not enough to lift the rear tires off the ground. When I got to the point where I wanted to drop the load, I needed to inch to the left. As I tried to turn the steering wheel, I got the wheels to change direction by maybe a couple of degrees. But without moving forward/backward, they would not change the angle any further.

Is that normal? I've never had that happen before (without load) so I'm not quite sure what to expect.

I can't say I have ever tried steering my 2565 under those conditions but I have only had it a few months and normally I wouldn't attempt steering without some forward or back movement on the tractor.

I grew up operating various types of equipment. That was in the days when virtually nothing had power steering so some motion was required to steer. I know my prior tractor, a Ford 4400, was very hard turning if the bucket was full of dirt and there was no motion and it some cases it wouldn't turn without motion.

All I can suggest is, if it won't turn easy then create some motion to help the equipment. In other words, learn the machine, work it hard but within it's limitations.

 

[erkme73]

It sounds like the weakness I'm experiencing is normal - and that's what I was after. I only have about 3 months of warranty left, so I didn't know if I should add this to my punch list of items before I give it to the dealer one last time. I'll mention it, but at least I'll know it's not unique.

 

[Gaowlpoop]

Keep tires inflated to the max and if your in soft soil sitting still with a heavy bucket there's a lot of resistance doesn't hurt to move the tractor a bit when turning.

I fully agree. The force required to turn the wheels with no movement of the tractor is tremendous. Have you ever watched a car turning the front wheels without forward/backward movement?

You obviously were driving and stearing just before you tried to turn the wheels with no movement. Seems like everything is working, just overloaded.

 

[4570Man]

I fully agree. The force required to turn the wheels with no movement of the tractor is tremendous. Have you ever watched a car turning the front wheels without forward/backward movement?

.

Yes. What's the point?

 

[darmstrong2319]

I had a 3616 that wouldn’t turn like it was supposed to and it got worse. The dealers mechanic finely discovered the steering valve was bad. They didn’t believe there was anything wrong with it, they drove it around the parking lot and said it worked fine. I told them to at least check the steering pressure so he goes to pull it inside the shop and he turned the steering wheel and tire didn’t move. Have them check it before warranty runs out. Can’t hurt.

 

[PILOON]

Power steering or not as long as you are creeping a bit you should be able to turn the wheels.
At a dead stop turning the steering is difficult and hard on the front end and just possibly the pump went into bypass mode.
Shucks I don't have power assist and with a full FEL load of crushed stone I have no problem but then I only attempt to steer when I am creeping a bit. Static would be impossible.

Hey, back in the day B4 cars had PS we learned how to do that.