Power Trac 425/1430 feel/size compared to SCUT/CUT

[cqaigy2]

Cool looking machine.

 

[coolconnection]

Well I haven’t commented on this forum for quite some time. Let me tell you I have had many different tractors and mowers over the years. I had a zero turn for about 6 years until I moved to an area that has some nice hills and it about flipped on me one day so I got rid of that one. Bought a Steiner and had it for about 5 years but got stolen from me. I then bought a power Trac 425. Nice nimble little machine I had for over 10 years. Many problems with the main pump and seriously expensive to have fixed. Labor is cheap because you have to do it yourself. Last time it broke I had it repaired and then sold it because I didn’t like fixing it anymore. Warranty is pretty sad on them. The new power Trac 425 got redesigned because that pump wasn’t available anymore, Bondioli quit making it. Too many problems I guess. I also hear if you want a PT 1430 you better buy it soon because that diesel doesn’t pass new emissions so they are going to be putting a gasser in that engine bay in the near future unless I got that info wrong. I am surprised the gentleman mentioned he didn’t like the mower deck on his Deere 1025. My new Massey mows by far better than the Steiner did and way better than my old power Trac. I did say I have hills now so I put wheel spacers on my new tractor and filled the rear tires. It is now very solid on my hills with a nice low center of gravity. The power Trac is a jack of all trades and master of none. Test as many tractors as you can and take good notes. There is no one size fits all when in come to tractor purchases. What might be right for you might not be right for the next guy. Just so you all know I am not bashing power Trac, I really liked that little machine. I think back on it now it was because of its uniqueness and just the right amount of American inginuity.

 

[airbiscuit]

I think Power Tracs are cool. I would like to own one. They are unique and a result of American Ingenuity. My issue with them is that they are better than an MTD, but not as good as a Kubota. I would like to see them do a joint venture with a zero turn company like Ferris or Hustler. It would give them a dealer network and potential for a better and more robust design. I get that it could have an impact on price, but I think it would improve function and reliability. It would also help expand product line of a zero turn brand.

They seem to be their own Struck Mini Dozer type of category. Popular Mechanics subscribers would be their target audience.

Again, I'm not hating on them, but they aren't in the same class as Kubota et. al.

 

[johara1]

Thanks for all that info. Ive put in my info power trac to have them send some paperwork to me. Hopefully it will include more details, specs, etc.

I actually won't be mowing on any slopes at all. My mowing will mainly consist at my home property where the terrain is flat, but often soggy and there's lots of obstacles to mow around on my approx 1 acre lawn. So nimbleness and maneuverability are the keys there. I'm not necessarily ruling out the 425. I could maybe get used to the gas motor, use it exclusively on my yard, and/or swap it out with a diesel if I don't like it.

I'm afraid the 1430 may be a bit too large for my yard, but looks about perfect for everything else. I do need to see some in the flesh to get a feel for them though. I'm in south east NC but drive to western NC a lot. If anybody happens to be the vicinity and they'd be willing to let me check out their machines let me know. Otherwise I'll try to get out to Tazewell during one of my next trips.

I know from experience the mower deck on a 425 will tear up a wet yard, the rear wheels on the deck dig in. I'm sure you don't want a 2500 lb 430 tractor plus the weight of the deck in a wet yard..... jim

 

[MossRoad]

....Test as many tractors as you can and take good notes. There is no one size fits all when in come to tractor purchases. What might be right for you might not be right for the next guy. ...

That's the best advice anyone can give. So many people have so many different tasks/properties/unique situations/budgets, etc... that you have to really do your research before purchase. It's even more important if you're trying to limit yourself to just one machine.

The OP says at his 1 acre home he has a flat lawn that stays damp quite often and that 90% of duties at home would be mowing it. The other 10% would be mowing small urban lawns at rental properties, and some light loader work.

The OP says he's building mountain pads for cabins and shows a video of the location. He also says he has a mini-ex. He says 90% of the work will be loader work, moving gravel and other loose material.

Steepness of the OP's hills at remote properties as viewed from the video eliminates the PT425 in my opinion. Just my opinion, of course, but my own experience on my own steep hills shows the OP has more of them than I do. I run on less-steep slopes all day long with my loader and brush cutter, and I make runs up and down the steep hills, a rise of 60', pulling logs or full buckets of black dirt up the hill. I don't think I could run up and down the steep hills all day long on the 425.

Loader work:
That eliminates the steiner/ventrac type machines instantly. They are not loaders. Seriously. Don't consider them for that type of loader work that you're planning to do at your mountain properties.

CUT/SCUT has good loader lift abilities. Does OP need to lift over the side of a pickup truck? If so, that eliminates the PT425 again. CUT/SCUT will lift higher. So that bumps you up to the PT1430 series or higher.

PT design will outperform CUT/SCUT design in loader work when it comes to moving material from point A to point B. They are faster, more nimble, more stabile, etc... I base this on my experience with my old IH2500b tractor loader VS my PT425. Both are designed as loaders. The little articulated machine ran circles around the much larger machine. Difference is amazing in speed.

Mowing:
Steiner/ventrac design is superior to CUT/SCUT and way superior to PT.
However.... OP mentioned small urban lawns.
Well, crud. How small? Any gates to pass through? Can you put a Steiner/Ventrac with duals onto those small urban lawns? Same question for CUT/SCUT/PT1430 series? A PT425 is only 42" wide. You can pick up a 48" or 60" deck from the side with the PT forks and carry it through a 48" gate.

But, I've eliminated the PT425 from the list due to the mountainous loader work previously mentioned....

So those are just some of the things the OP is gonna have to consider.

Then there's this monkey wrench, of course.

Put larger displacement wheel motors onto a PT425. :laughing:

Some have done that. It makes for a lower top speed but more hill climbing ability. A mountain goat, from what I've read. This is not a bad solution if you can find a used PT425, have a welder, and are mechanically competent.

Anyhow, OP has some serious PRO/CON listing to do.

I'd say if he's stuck with one machine, it's down to a CUT/SCUT with wheel spacers and weight or a PT due to the amount of loader work in it's future.

If he wants to purchase multiple machines, then I'd suggest a lawn tractor for the flat lawns, and a tracked skid steer for the mountain, or a PT1845/50.

 

[tommott77]

That's the best advice anyone can give. So many people have so many different tasks/properties/unique situations/budgets, etc... that you have to really do your research before purchase. It's even more important if you're trying to limit yourself to just one machine.

The OP says at his 1 acre home he has a flat lawn that stays damp quite often and that 90% of duties at home would be mowing it. The other 10% would be mowing small urban lawns at rental properties, and some light loader work.

The OP says he's building mountain pads for cabins and shows a video of the location. He also says he has a mini-ex. He says 90% of the work will be loader work, moving gravel and other loose material.

Steepness of the OP's hills at remote properties as viewed from the video eliminates the PT425 in my opinion. Just my opinion, of course, but my own experience on my own steep hills shows the OP has more of them than I do. I run on less-steep slopes all day long with my loader and brush cutter, and I make runs up and down the steep hills, a rise of 60', pulling logs or full buckets of black dirt up the hill. I don't think I could run up and down the steep hills all day long on the 425.

Loader work:
That eliminates the steiner/ventrac type machines instantly. They are not loaders. Seriously. Don't consider them for that type of loader work that you're planning to do at your mountain properties.

CUT/SCUT has good loader lift abilities. Does OP need to lift over the side of a pickup truck? If so, that eliminates the PT425 again. CUT/SCUT will lift higher. So that bumps you up to the PT1430 series or higher.

PT design will outperform CUT/SCUT design in loader work when it comes to moving material from point A to point B. They are faster, more nimble, more stabile, etc... I base this on my experience with my old IH2500b tractor loader VS my PT425. Both are designed as loaders. The little articulated machine ran circles around the much larger machine. Difference is amazing in speed.

Mowing:
Steiner/ventrac design is superior to CUT/SCUT and way superior to PT.
However.... OP mentioned small urban lawns.
Well, crud. How small? Any gates to pass through? Can you put a Steiner/Ventrac with duals onto those small urban lawns? Same question for CUT/SCUT/PT1430 series? A PT425 is only 42" wide. You can pick up a 48" or 60" deck from the side with the PT forks and carry it through a 48" gate.

But, I've eliminated the PT425 from the list due to the mountainous loader work previously mentioned....

So those are just some of the things the OP is gonna have to consider.

Then there's this monkey wrench, of course.

Put larger displacement wheel motors onto a PT425. :laughing:

Some have done that. It makes for a lower top speed but more hill climbing ability. A mountain goat, from what I've read. This is not a bad solution if you can find a used PT425, have a welder, and are mechanically competent.

Anyhow, OP has some serious PRO/CON listing to do.

I'd say if he's stuck with one machine, it's down to a CUT/SCUT with wheel spacers and weight or a PT due to the amount of loader work in it's future.

If he wants to purchase multiple machines, then I'd suggest a lawn tractor for the flat lawns, and a tracked skid steer for the mountain, or a PT1845/50.

Thank you for that. Yeah, doing bucket work (not mowing) up and down the steel/hilly roads all day is exactly the type of work it would be doing in the mountains so that honest assessment on the 425 was exactly what I needed to hear. Again I'm not seeing much in terms of specs but one of the questions I had were if all the all PT models were direct drive with no low/high gear? Would a one speed 1430 be able to run full buckets up and down steep roads all day for example?

I do believe that ventracs and maybe Steiners have two speed transmissions. I'll have try to get some seat time in those machines as well. I know that the Ventrac has a loader, want to say that the newest model steiners don't though.

As far as the loader work I really don't need to lift over a truck bed. What I need is the ability to load/unload material/equipment out of the back of a truck and off a trailer constantly. Forks are an absolute must and get used a lot. So outright height is not much of a concern but I need something more than the power buckets that ventrac/Steiner push over the loaders.

I'd love to find one machine to do it all. The mountain work is hard on the machine but will be only needed infrequently in the near future. The 3025 does everything I ask out of it up there but will soon be sitting around except for a couple days out of a couple weeks of the year.

 

[m5040]

Just another thought I would like to mention. The PT's have a different balance then CUT or Steiner due to the rear engine. When a Steiner Ventrac lifts the mower, the weight of the engine, transaxle and the mower is all on the front axle, similarly with a CUT. Those configurations all NEED ballast on the rear (to work with anything substantial in the front), so the advertised weight is deceiving. The 1430 may weight more to start with, but it doesn't need any ballast. The higher weight is spread out more evenly over all 4 tires.
The quality of the grass cut is with the design of the mower. I bought a different brand of mower to use on my 1430 for example. If you really wanted to, you could find a well designed golf course quality deck and just drive it hydraulically.

 

[MossRoad]

Thank you for that. Yeah, doing bucket work (not mowing) up and down the steel/hilly roads all day is exactly the type of work it壇 be doing in the moutains so that honest on the 425 assessment was exactly what I needed to hear. Again I知 not seeing much in times of specs but one of the questions I had were if all the all PT models were direct drive with no low/high gear? Would a one speed 1430 be able to run full buckets up and down steep roads all day for example?

I do believe that ventracs and maybe Steiners have two speed transmissions. I値l have try to get some seat time in those machines as well. I know that the Ventrac has a loader, want to say that the newest model steiners don稚 though.

As far as the loader work I really don稚 need to lift over a truck bed. What I need is the ability to load/unload material/equipment out of the back of a track and off a trailer constantly. Forks are an absolute must and get used a lot. So outright height is not much of a concern but I need something more than the power buckets that ventrac/Steiner push over the loaders.

I壇 love to find one machine to do it all. The mountain work is hard on the machine but will be only needed infrequently in the near future. The 3025 does everything I ask out of it up there but will soon be sitting around except for a couple days out of a couple weeks of the year.

The way PowerTracs driveline is laid out:

The engine drives a variable volume pump.
That pump provides fluid to 4 wheel motors.
There are no driveshafts, differentials, range selectors, etc...
There's just one range.
So that's your compromise: speed VS power and the tasks you're trying to accomplish. That's why conventional tractors are better at pulling. They can be geared several ways due to the range selector.

For example, my 2001 model year PT425 has a speed range of 0-8mph. Push lightly on the treadle pedal and you get more power, but less speed. Push hard on the treadle and you get more speed but less power. Make sense?

I believe the newer PT425s have larger wheel motors and variable volume pumps. You still get the top speed of 8mph, but more powerful at lower speeds. You'd have to ask Terry at PowerTrac how that works.

The larger PTs have larger displacement wheel motors, pumps, different sized tires, etc... so they're all different. Again, you'd have to ask either Terry or one of the TBN members that has such a machine how they perform on hills with loads.

 

[MossRoad]

We used to have a pickup truck. I'd remove the tailgate and I'd just drive the PT425 backwards right up into the bed of the truck, strap it in, and go to wherever I was going. I could leave a mower deck or the large bucket with the small bucket and forks nested inside attached and they'd rest on the rear bumper. That was great. Then we had more children and we got a 3/4 ton van and a car hauler trailer. The car hauler has a solid metal deck. This combination works great, as the PT425 can load or unload the car hauler trailer from the sides or drive right up the ramps and scoop up rocks, mulch, etc... right off the bed. We sold the van and bought a Suburban, but the combination is the same. I can haul the PT425, 60" mower, 48" brush hog, two buckets, forks, and more all on one trailer to a job and have it all available. The quick attach on the PT is outstanding. I can change non-powered implements in less than 15 seconds without getting off the machine. Powered implements you have to get out of the seat and connect hydraulic hoses, so that ads another 30 seconds or so to the task.

 

[ponytug]

Thank you for that. Yeah, doing bucket work (not mowing) up and down the steel/hilly roads all day is exactly the type of work it would be doing in the mountains so that honest assessment on the 425 was exactly what I needed to hear. Again I'm not seeing much in terms of specs but one of the questions I had were if all the all PT models were direct drive with no low/high gear? Would a one speed 1430 be able to run full buckets up and down steep roads all day for example?

I do believe that ventracs and maybe Steiners have two speed transmissions. I'll have try to get some seat time in those machines as well. I know that the Ventrac has a loader, want to say that the newest model steiners don't though.

As far as the loader work I really don't need to lift over a truck bed. What I need is the ability to load/unload material/equipment out of the back of a truck and off a trailer constantly. Forks are an absolute must and get used a lot. So outright height is not much of a concern but I need something more than the power buckets that ventrac/Steiner push over the loaders.

I'd love to find one machine to do it all. The mountain work is hard on the machine but will be only needed infrequently in the near future. The 3025 does everything I ask out of it up there but will soon be sitting around except for a couple days out of a couple weeks of the year.

At the end of the day, hauling material up a hill is limited by horse power. More HP, more material getting up the hill, all other things being equal.

I would go test drive the tractors.

I use my PT daily, and the PT Swiss Army knife solution matches my varying needs these days. I have used a number of different tractors over the years, some of which were amazing (the old Ford 4N, and the Deutz-Fahrs come to mind), but for my property these days, I love my PT. I routinely switch from one to another and back in seconds, e.g. using the forks to haul posts to the large bucket to haul soil and hay, to putting on job specific tools. Having the attachments in front with a working quick attach is such a game changer. I never miss having 3 point attachments behind me, having to climb down to kick bars into pins, and having to drive over brush before mowing. I was once almost swept off a small tractor into a running brush mower by a low branch. Talk about putting the fear of death put into you!

But...you have different requirements. Have fun test driving machines!

All the best,

Peter