Prices on driveway paving

[Egon]

Another opinion on concrete pavers.
Advantages of Concrete Pavers

Please note:
There are many well qualified small contractors that do small jobs for Homeowners. They are not an iffy lot.

This does not include ”The Travellers”

 

[LouNY]

A few very generic things about driveways in general;

12 feet wide is a good number; 16 ft is a big increase in money, and not normally necessary. Narrower than 12 is kinda tight. It's not that 9 or 10 Won't work, but you probably won't be happy.

Wider radius at the street connection is always better; 15 ft radius or flare at a min; 25 ft is standard for what is called a 'high speed' roadway, ie 45mph+. Figure on pulling trailers in, at night, in poor weather; a tight radius isn't fun.

Size any culverts/side drains longer than you think. A 32 ft pipe will work for a 12 ft drive, with mitered ends, but you don't want to go down to a 24 ft pipe if you're using miters. If your going 16 ft wide, maybe from road to propety line (not a bad choice), you probably need a 40 ft pipe.

Trees are bad in 3 ways; roots, shade allowing water to sit; and turning radius'. Keep them min 8ft from EOP.

A crown or an inverted drive (minor V) to channel water either off the drive or channeled down the center, to where you have drainage structures. I prefer a crown, unless there is a good reason to capture the water.

If money is tight, I'd rather give up some asphalt rather than any base. Many parking lots have 1.25" of asphalt; but I wouldnt let anyone try to tell you they can just spead a couple inches of base and then lay 2" of asphalt on top. If you have sufficient, intact base, you can over lay in the future, but if the base is bad; you have to completely rebuild.

Density/compaction doesn't guarantee a good road, BUT bad compact/density does garrantee a Bad road/drive.

At the road connection, on your side of the ROW, run 2-2" conduits under the drive, atleast 24" deep, just for future; and on a 750 ft drive; I'd run conduits at least 2 places; for future gates/cameras/power/sprinklers; ect. Pipe isn't cheap, but directional drilling or open cutting the drive later is worse.

control any Veg trying to grow in any cracks/expansion joints/control joints, they will make things worse over time.

Interesting reading, I've been seriously considering paving some portions of my driveway. Around here I keep hearing about "green" paving and porous paving.
What are the various grades or types of asphalt paving?
The reason I say portions is that I'd like to pave my approach from the road and about 60 ft up the start, then my 2 sharp curves and the flatter portion on the upper end of the driveway.
People have a tendency to drop into the very inside of the curve to come up the driveway instead of driving wide on it, the inside is a much steeper climb then the outside is, so they tend to chew up and loosen the gravel.
Also my driveway is wider on most of it so vehicles can meet and pass. The curves are a good 20 feet wide so that long wheel base trucks and short trailers can make the curves without backing up and jockeying around.
So I would say my main question is what spec for asphalt should I be asking and looking for?
The older roads seemed to have much more asphalt in them and held up better.

 

[paulsharvey]

There are several types of permeable concrete and asphalt. The most common type would be FC-5; which is what you see on the top lift of high speed roadways. You Don't want that. It doesn't hold up well to turning movements, and it has to be placed on a normal SP type asphalt, and it's expensive, and not good for handwork.

The other types of permeable asphalt typically don't hold up well to extremes in heat, so its not really used down here, I know it exists but I've never seen it.

I've seen permeable concrete, but not widely. What I've seen more in that use case, is open grid blocks, with grass or aggregate in the center 'void' of the paver blocks. This is mostly about reducing the imperiable surface area, for drainage permitting.

For more common, hot mix, asphalts; there are dozens of mix designs;
For broud capagories:
Marshall Mixes; an older type, no longer used on roads, but a bit cheaper than Super Pave, many plants no longer make this; it's cheaper, and would be fine for a driveway
S-1; uses 1/2" max sized aggregate
S-3; uses 3/8"

Super Pave; the modern common class; a good ware resistant, general purpose asphalt
SP-9.5 9.5mm rock (3/8")
SP-12.5 12.5mm rock (1/2")
SP-19 19mm rock (3/4")
SP-25 25mm rock (1") never actually seen this, but it does exist in Georgia

Friction (closed grade), a wear resistant, good traction, top lift of asphalt for roadways
FC-9.5; has additional polymer binders, that improve vehicle traction; 9.5mm rock
FC-12.5

Friction (open grade)
FC-5; this is a different material; where you specifically don't have a lot of different rock sizes, so it creates kinda a somewhat open web of rock/binder; allowing great traction, and allows water to kinda run through the voids; used on 55mph plus; where there isn't turning movements; so primarily 4 lane roads

Each of these is made in multiple traffic levels (ie ware resistance). Traffic Level-B should be a typical low speed, county/city road, and Traffic Level-C would be a state road. Traffic Level-D might be used in port loading areas/major trucking distribution centers, and other extreme environments.

Typically smaller rock will resist rutting less, but will have a nicer, smoother, ride and appearance

So, a fairly typical roadway paving;
State Road; 2.5" of Sp-12.5 and then 1.5" of FC-12.5
County Road (minor and/or low speed) 1.5" SP-12.5
County Road (major and/or high speed) 2" SP-12.5 and then 1" FC-9.5

You typically can't lay asphalt thinner than 2.5x the max aggregate size (so, 9.5mm would be min of 1"; 12.5mm would be a min. lift of 1.5"), at the same time, you wouldn't want to lay more than maybe 1.5" of 9.5mm per lift, or 2.5" of 12.5mm, but you could go to something like 3-3.5" of a 19mm mix.

There are also cold mix asphalts, that use a solvent instead of heat to keep the asphalt cement liquid/flexible, this is what you see in bags at home depot, but it is also sold by the ton at some batch plants. It's Far from ideal for anything other than patching; but I've heard of special designs being used in India/Alaska.

Recently, there is a new type of patching asphalt, called Aquaphalt; its like $80 for a 3 gal bucket; but it uses an organic polymere that is activated by water; so you can dump it straight in a water filled pot hole. So far, it seems like a better product than any existing 'cold patch'.

There has been work with 100% recycled asphalt; where they heat straight millings upto like 500 degrees F, and get them to somewhat bond. It's been used for shoulder drop offs, and other places where you don't really Need true asphalt, and it is cheaper. This is not a replacement for real asphalt, as it was milled up cause the AC (asphaltic cement) content is low, and then you burnt out more of it, super heating it.

Chip Seal; type spray a liquid AC on the base, then spread a single layer of 1/2" or 3/8" graded washed rock on the Hot AC, and then Traffic roll it (rubber tired roller). They then can add another layer or even 2 layers on top of that.

Micro Pave or Microsurfacing; (never done this, but did some reading) is very similar to chip seal; but used asphalt emulsions, with added polymers instead of straight AC.

 

[paulsharvey]

Attached is a pretty basic cross section. of a two lane road, wuth paved shoulders.

Also, I had to look up the traffic levels;
Traffic Level A; 300,000 adjusted single axle trips design load
Traffic Level B; 300,000 to 3,000,000
Traffic Level C; 3M-10M
Traffic Level D; 10M-30m
Traffic Level E; 30M+

So; if we take a look at a Traffic Level A; at 20 trips per day ( the ITE trips for a residential access); thats 41 years, of ware resistance to a passenger car. I'm no engineer, but those Design Equivalanrt Single Axle Loads; there is math that factors in weight ect, and it's not 100% linear; a 10,000# vehicle isn't simply double a 5,000# vehicle.

Sun, weather, and other factors will likely decay the asphalt surface layer before you reach the Traffic number for a home.

 

[LouNY]

Attached is a pretty basic cross section. of a two lane road, wuth paved shoulders.

Also, I had to look up the traffic levels;
Traffic Level A; 300,000 adjusted single axle trips design load
Traffic Level B; 300,000 to 3,000,000
Traffic Level C; 3M-10M
Traffic Level D; 10M-30m
Traffic Level E; 30M+

So; if we take a look at a Traffic Level A; at 20 trips per day ( the ITE trips for a residential access); thats 41 years, of ware resistance to a passenger car. I'm no engineer, but those Design Equivalanrt Single Axle Loads; there is math that factors in weight ect, and it's not 100% linear; a 10,000# vehicle isn't simply double a 5,000# vehicle.

Sun, weather, and other factors will likely decay the asphalt surface layer before you reach the Traffic number for a home.View attachment 854200

Thanks for the information.
And another question,
how important is using a vibrating screen.
My driveway is quite steep 14-16 degree app. 24-25% slope I am a bit nervous about a double drum roller and not certain how well a single drum with rubber rear will behave.
Any thoughts.
Also it is a hardpan base that becomes elastic as the frost comes out.
It doesn't have a lot of traffic but much is heavier single and tandem axle trucks.

 

[paulsharvey]

Thanks for the information.
And another question,
how important is using a vibrating screen.
My driveway is quite steep 14-16 degree app. 24-25% slope I am a bit nervous about a double drum roller and not certain how well a single drum with rubber rear will behave.
Any thoughts.
Also it is a hardpan base that becomes elastic as the frost comes out.
It doesn't have a lot of traffic but much is heavier single and tandem axle trucks.

I dont know the answer to that. On a full sized paver, the screed does do a fair bit of the compaction of the asphalt, but I've never seen/heard of not rolling it. A traffic roller does help (9 wheel rubber tired roller), but that is used after the initial compaction by a steel wheeled asphalt roller (with water jets, to avoid hot asphalt sticking to the drum).

I've never paved or been around paving in the mountains.

Your hard pan, that gets soft in freezing would also concern me; but we don't deal with freeze/thaw here.

 

[Torvy]

Lots of info here!

We just contracted to have a gravel drive put in, maybe 7200 Sq ft with adjacent parking 'pad' near house. I was going to get the materials and do it myself. The materials alone were over $10k.

Had a local guy come out to bid. (Same guy did our clearing). The whole job, plus fill dirt is about the same as me buying the materials. Now it's just waiting our turn.

Like @oosik said, asphalt and concrete are very rare around here out in the country. Long drives are expensive and the further from the resources the more you pay.

We did have asphalt in Wisconsin when we lived there. Steep driveway in the suburbs. A couple of things to add to the advice about that...
Asphalt can and should be resurfaced every few years. Easy to do and not horribly expensive. Just need time and good weather. This will greatly extend the life of the driveway.
Asphalt is great is snowy climates as the black color absorbs heat better than concrete and you get solar-powered snow removal (to a point). Most of our neighbors had concrete and it was very noticeable how much more quickly and completely the snow and ice melted off of ours.
I cannot speak to the install cost as it was there when we moved in.

Good luck.

 

[Milo]

.....In my opinion, anything is better then gravel.....

After reading all that's involved to get a paved or concrete driveway, and the cost, I think there's a lot to be said for a correctly put in, gravel drive.
Mine was put in in 23 years ago when I started building the house and consisted of removing the organic material and rolling about 12" of strip stone, almost a slate type material that was free I just had to pay for hauling. I had about a 2" layer of 57 stone put on in 2012.
In 2018 probably (50-55) 80,000# logging trucks ran over it, and in building my shop there were 4 concrete trucks, and the trucks bring framing, drywall, etc. And still not sunken place, hole, or crack in the whole drive.

 

[paulsharvey]

There are a Lot of options
A: dirt; cheap to free; can be fine for many people/conditions/soil types; sometimes a dirt or sand drive can seem fine, until a heavy vehicke breaks though; can always be improved later; on a slope, erosion can get Very bad fast; its entirely depended on your local soils/slopes/drainage; DIY friendly with tractor/skid steer; or nothing ar all

B: wood chips on dirt; cheap to free; works well many times But it will need removed if improved; can attract termites; can float in heavy water; can wash; Need to have a free source, like a power ROW clearing contractor; not easy to grade;

C: improv stabalized; carpet/conveyer belts/ect; can actually work very well; look ghetto as heck, really need to be removed if you make improvements

D: sand-clay/ball field clay; cheap (if locally available); doesn't wash too bad; can be added to with more clay/rock/ect; can actually be paved over; gets slimy in rain; stains vehicles/clothes/tracks into house; if you get it delivered, you can easily spread/grade with tractor/skid steer/mini hoe

E: gravel/roadbase; can get pricey with trucking, but if close locally, it's pretty cheap; properly installed will last a long time, can be added too/redressed/regraded/paved over; some roadbase (limerock) will wash pretty bad; washed graded gravel doesn't really bond into a homogenous base; even if you add a few loads of rock every 5 years, it's still probably far cheaper than asphalt or concrete; if delivered can easily be spread/shaped with tractor/skid steer/whatever

F: crushed concrete; very good material; can be priced near roadbase depending on trucking; very dusty; water doesn't hurt it, unless it's high volume/high velocity; can be added too/paved over; often has some wire, and can lead to flat tires; easily spread and shaped intialy; can be hard to regrade later

G: RAP/millings; getting very expensive, ($900/load locally, and that's off the roadway); pretty much only available near a milling job or an asphalt plant; water doesn't really affect it much; less dusty than crushed concrete; can be paved over; don't believe it's a magical material; it doesn't turn back to asphalt in the summer

H: chip seal over one of the base materials; cheaper than asphalt; protects the base from water; eliminates dust; pretty good traction; it's very thin, and won't last as long as asphalt; don't see. to be many contractors still doing it; requires a tack truck or atlwast a tack wagon, and a rock spreader, and traffic roller; Not DIY friendly; can be paved over in the future; can be re chip sealed.

I: asphalt; cheaper than concrete /pavers; dust free, not affect by rain/minor run off water; you do need to patch and crack seal as needed; can be milled or overlayed; fairly easy to cut or demo if needed; not DIY friendly, however, you really can Pave a small area with a dump trailer, box blade, and a plate tamp; in 90% of cases asphalt will be laid on top of another base material; but full depth asphalt, using asphalt as a base is also done in areas where time or water are critical issues; that gets extremely expensive when you start talking about 6-9" of asphalt.

J: concrete; if done correctly, with good subgrade it should outlast you, but is very expensive; poorly done concrete costs just as much, but will be a mess as quick as anything else; unaffected by petroleum/most chemicals; unaffected by water; cutting/demo very expensive; can Not be overlayed; can be very good looking; needs cure time after pour. Pretty DIY friendly, and can be done in sections/phases; many contractors; concrete plants deliver on ready mix trucks; can be pumped in some pretty bad terrian; can be groved to improve traction on slopes;

Few odd ball options;
Soil cement; has to be the right native soils (sandy, low organics); can be paved over; water doesn't break this base down; if soils are right, you are only importing the Portland cement to mix in; can't really be regraded after it cures; can reflect cracks though asphalt
Geostabalized grids; pretty costly, has to be paired with an aggregate base; can help bridge bad subgrade, but eventually the subgrade will rear its ugly head; don't know if it needs removed or top coated with additional base to Pave over?
Pavers; probably the most expensive, and to do properly for long life, they need to be on a good base; often grow mold/slime; will settle individually; can often remove a few broken ones to repair or remove and replace to trench under the drive; can also be mortared in

 

[ponytug]

Thanks for the information.
And another question,
how important is using a vibrating screen.
My driveway is quite steep 14-16 degree app. 24-25% slope I am a bit nervous about a double drum roller and not certain how well a single drum with rubber rear will behave.
Any thoughts.
Also it is a hardpan base that becomes elastic as the frost comes out.
It doesn't have a lot of traffic but much is heavier single and tandem axle trucks.

I would have concerns that the elastic hardpan is going to be a problem for anything above it that is solid/rigid (e.g. asphalt/concrete) unless enough rock/road base is put on top of it. Some of the solutions in @paulsharvey's nice post above on road base solutions definitely help, e.g. mixing lime or cement, or using geotextile fabrics or grids to help stabilize the base. You might want to consult with a local geotechnical engineer, who probably has actual experience address your particular soils.

All the best,

Peter