Pricing

[dummy]

Once again leave it to a wordsmith to add the right touches. I wholeheartedly agree, OVERALL value makes a business worth going to whether it be local or a long distance trip. All the right words and all the great photos, when's the book signing?

 

[Charliebrn]

Hey Mike! Ya forgot one:

Oil: Synthetic or Dino?????

 

[Anonymous Poster]

What about mines bigger'n yours??/w3tcompact/icons/grin.gif/w3tcompact/icons/grin.gif




Tractors guys.... we are talkin' tractors here.

Get your minds out of the gutter..............so mine can float by./w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif/w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

Ob1

 

[PaulT]

I, like some others here, have tried to remain passive on this issue and just read the thread. Obviously I have failed/w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif. I have three topics to bring out.

1 Regarding Spencer2000's post on setting margin and politely declining any business below this. Its interesting you should mention 9%. I went through this whole process with our local dealer. I got an internet quote, brought it to him to match, and he refused. I should say that Carver's were not competitve with the quote I got, but that he was still less than my local dealer. The range was $24000 for low bid, $25000 for Carver, and $26000 for local dealer (roughly speaking). This was for a 2710 with a hoe, mmm, FEL. I worked hard with my local dealer to get him down at least to Carver's level, but in the end, he took the same position you mentioned, but his number was 15%/w3tcompact/icons/shocked.gif!!! Later, he admitted that my total price came out to about 9%, but that HE COULDN"T LIVE ON THAT MARGIN! Maybe, on a collective basis, this is true, overhead being what it is. But on a single case basis, for an obviously informed buyer who wanted to keep buisness local, he should have made an exception. These machines have very little problems. The 9% is more than reasonable compensation for assembly work, not to mention that it contributes to their volume numbers. Now, if they were so unwilling ot view me as an individual, instead of a transaction that would lower thier weighted average profit margin, why should I expect they would treat me any better down the road?? Also, I was willing to give him a nice profit with little work, even if it wasn't what he planned for in his "business plan". AND he would have a customer for life if he showed some flexibility. BOTTOM LINE - holding to your margin is a chicken**** way of saying I am unwilling to treat you as an individual and try to meet your expectiations.

Second point. Some of you dealer types seem to be preaching the philosophy that, as consumers, we should be willing to pay a premium (200, 500, 1000 it doesn't matter) for basic decent treatment as a human and a customer. HOGWASH! We are not talking about negotiating down your shop labor rate here. (the cheap, fast or good take any 2 idea). We are talking about profit and overhead coverage. As a dealer, your values are YOUR values. They dictate how you treat people (all kinds, not just your customers). If you say that you can't "afford" to treat me right unless I pay for your (relatively higher) overhead, then I say you are fooling yourself so you can sleep at night. If you make an exception to your pricing to get and keep me as a customer, you will likely increase your overall volume (at least because I will spread you good name by word of mouth), which will allow you to spread your overhead across more deals, effectively lowering your profit "requirement" per deal (i.e per individual).

Third point. This web site is fantastic and dynamic!! These threads take on a life of thier own/w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif. If you start a thread that gets controversial, people will respond to the ideas presented (by everyone), not to the person that presented them! In some cases, the originator of the thread can get a bit defensive. I think it would be better to view yourself as the catalyst, not the moderator. When a thread gets 3 pages long, the originator shouldn't feel like he has to respond to all of the comments. Maybe that will help some of us when we realize that we've opened up a can of worms.

Finally (I know, I said three, but I just thought of this). The people here are generally (if not always) courteous and polite, and I don't believe anyone is lying about their pricing (just a few dealers may be surprised at what other dealers really can do). Open and honest dialog about the issues, not the presenters of the issues, is what makes open societies great!

 

[CSAW]

MikePA

You forgot the best one.

PLASTIC OR METAL

 

[blurrybill]

Thanks, Paul.

Bill

 

[MikePA]

Just curious...Why should how much profit a seller is making on a transaction concern the buyer? I don't care how the seller arrived at their price. If the price is what I consider fair (my definition of fair - which differs from everyone elses), then I dont care if the seller makes 10% profit on the sale or 90% profit. While knowing what the seller might have paid for an item helps me determine what fair is, I would never engage a seller in a discussion/argument what a fair profit is or how they arrived at their price. What would I hope to accomplish by such a discussion? Convince them they are wrong? Hardly. Either they will sell me an item at a fair price or they wont. If they will, I buy from them. If they can't, I thank them for their time and move on.

 

[PaulT]

I was only using the 9/15% margin numbers for the sake of this discussion. As I said in my post, I only found out these numbers AFTER I had set my opinion of what a fair price was. So, I guess I agree with you. It was my local dealer that started in with margins/profit as a way to justify not meeting my expectation of a fair price. Instead of just saying "that price is not fair to me" (which is what he meant), he "blamed" his unwillingness to treat me individually on his (or his boss') business model.

 

[MikePA]

I agree. If a seller asked me why I didn't think their price was fair, I'd tell them which could include things like quotes from another dealer, distance I live from the dealer, the potential stream of business they might expect from me in the future, etc.

 

[billfires]

When I was first looking at NH I was told by one salesman that $2000-3000 premium wasn't that big a deal on a $25,000 purchase. I don't know how much he makes but I can tell you that a $500 premium price for a local dealer is more than fair, in my opinion. Could it be that sometimes it is a supply and demand situation. I know a local landscaper that uses his JD compact almost daily and when I asked him about the dealer he purchased from he frankly told me not to even get a price. He knows he pays a big premium but feels the service he receives is worth it( the dealer will deliver a loaner to the job site and pick up his tractor for service work). He makes his living with his tractor and can't be without it

Bill C

 

[rancar]

Right on Paul. You've hit on the head on all three points and your final observation. /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

 

[Luckyme]

Your correct. $2K is way too much difference. I did not pursue the reason, as I felt he was so far out, and he simply stated that he would not get any 2710's for 3-4 weeks. Whats that about?/w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif Every other dealer either had them in stock or promissed one in 3-5 days. Not to mention, I did not feel he was that interested in selling a Kubota that he did not have in stock. (They sell green also, and had several in stock)The salesman that I typically dealt with was at training or something like that, and the guy who priced me was the "sales manager". Maybe he did not think I was serious about buying a 2710. I believe I was clear with my intentions to buy. His loss, a more accomodating dealers gain. I even made it simple....paid cash!/w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

 

[ecard]

One experience I has recently is when I purchased my rear blade Woods RB72. There is an ad in Farmworld everyweek advertising Woods implments significantly lower than almost all dealers. Now when I went to my dealer with their price they were aware of these ads (not to happy by the way) and I was able to get within $20 of the advertised price. I did't have to travel 80 miles to go and get the blade with my dealership backing me up.

But I did get to thinking of why I couldn't contact woods or landpride and try to obtain a "dealership" and advertise on the web at ridiculously low prices (still making enough to justify the time) and sell direct. I would have no overhead and could operate at extremly low margins and still make it worth my while as an individual.

Now if Woods or Landpride were smart they would never grant me a "dealership". I would think dealers that do the same would also be at risk of losing their line.

Just a different twist. I am sure Steve is happy to sell more units and generate manufacturer incentives than one unit with the same profit - assuming the cost is equal.

 

[diggernh]

Observationist..just for the record, I see your point and I agree with ya. I am just a working class schmuck who is also careful with his spendable dollars, however, to me, a good purchase is more than just a good price. I like to be treated well and with respect. When a dealer/salesperson treats me well, I am more agreeable to negotiating with him. This past January, I purchased a new B7500 with fel and bh and a trailor to haul it on. The salesman I dealt with at the dealership treated me and my wife so well that, heck, I might have paid even more for it (but I didn't let him know that!!) I have had 2 warranty issues surface since the purchase and I tell you, that salesman was on it like ugly on my mother-in-law. Not only did he see to it that my repairs were made quicker than immediately, but he called me to tell me what the service department was doing about it and even handwrote me a letter each time to detail the repairs. Maybe to some folks, this might be a non issue and all they care about is the bottom line of what they paid for the item, but to me, this fella has solidified a long time purchasing/service relationship with this very satisfied consumer.

 

[TBone]

diggernh,

I couldn't agree more. I have only bought two brand new tractors in my life. The first one I bought strictly on price - I saved about $1000. The second I bought because I had a good feeling about the dealer. They were a third generation family dealer that really know how to treat their customer (and they are close by). I paid a little more for that and I would do it again. To me price rates waaaaay down below service in making my buying decision.

TBone

 

[jasonf]

I would spend the extra money for service like that. You see by doing what he did, you have shared that positive experiance with who knows how many TBN'ers who would give him consideration when they have to buy a tractor. What is the name of the dealership ? Sounds like what goes around comes around......./w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

 

[therrien]

Diggernh
It sounds like your happy with your dealer. Would you let us know who your dealer is? Some not so good dealers get mentioned on this sight, but I think the good ones should have their time too.
Good luck with your toy's, I mean tools.

 

[diggernh]

Ok fellas..here is my dealer..MB Tractor in Tilton, New Hampshire (formally Ryan Tractor) I would tell ya the salesman's name but I don't know how he would feel about having his name mentioned on the internet. Next time I see him, I will ask if it is cool with him. They are located just a short 12 mile ride north of me so it makes it real convenient to go up there for filters and other stuff I need. As soon as the snow melts and mud season ends, Me gonna run up there and buy me some of their land pride attachments. Aint it odd how many friends you realize you have once ya buy a tractor? My phone aint hardly stopped ringin' since I got this beauty home. Guess I am just gonna have to bite the bullet, plaster this Kubota with insurance, and go allow my friends to help me recoup my investment. Not in it to get rich, but it will give me the beloved seat time I crave, and who knows..maybe have to purchase another tractor or 2 from the same salesman. And to think that my wife INSISTED that I buy this!!..God..I worship the dirt she treats me like...YEEEE---HAAAAAA!!!

 

[forestcreature]

to change the thread direction a tad....

here are the things i really appreciate about my local john deere dealer:

1. they are Always there [during planting and harvesting season - the shop is open all hours of the night] (sales weasels don't do weekends, and are gone by 5)

2. the owners & workers all grew up here and know the land.
[most farm too]

3. if i am having a problem, they are trying to fix it.

4. i get sound advice and no b.s.

5. they happen to be a couple of miles away [in the other direction, mind you - maybe they could move?]

6. found out later that the son of a neighbor works there. [too late for a family-friend discount though]

7. service. fast, correct, no hassles.

8. rentals

9. family business for generations. [and i would assume that most dealers are]

i shopped all of the colors for what i was looking for, the deere people had the best fit.

did i get the best price? maybe, there are other deere dealers farther away that are certainly closer to me than some of you have to go to find any dealer at all.

did i get the best value? yes - i am CERTAIN of that.

10. they know me by name, know what projects i do.

11. they ask me how the tractor is, have i had any problems?

12. you can't tell the difference between a friend and a customer. [well, friends get their own coffee maybe]

now i have not bought all of my attachments from them, i have some used stuff from an old retired farmer [another neighbor] that sells some stuff to supplement his income.

but, i do buy all of my parts/liquids/etc from the deere people. and if there is ever a mechanical problem that i don't want to mess with - service is only a phone call away.

why?

they have earned it.


it isn't likely that i will be a customer of mr. carver since he does not live near me, and i am pretty sure that he won't mind that one bit.

why? because i think mr. carver is just like my dealer.
he is doing business on his own merits the best way that he can.

i am still learning a lot from mr. carver and the other dealers here [and all of you owners too].

sorry if this went a bit long, i get 'preachy' now & then.


diggernh, be sure to hug that wife of yours and thank her for the rest of us! [we want to use her as a role model for all wives]

 

[Anonymous Poster]

I agree the local dealers are great, plus a supportive significant other makes life easier in tractor land.

When I took delivery on a B21TLB a good Maine dealer did get my $ after doing research on line (Carver the lowest and the best on the internet by my regard) the local dealer agreed to $1000 more but worth the delta as the low price did not include shipping, test drives, wandering the lot, or face to face encounter. They get my service business too (plus pick up and deliver N/C) and make few $ on parts, but since these units are stingy on repairs not a lot is made after inventory carrying costs.

My philosiphy on pricing is when you think you have a fair price take it. When I'm out there digging and planting,(soon I hope) for myself or the neighbors what I paid is far from my mind.