Problem with curl cylinder?

[radman1]

Did you ever try another valve as a test valve to see if the cylinders does the same thing. In your parts manual, does it say that the spool has o-rings, if so, pull that out and replace the o-rings.

Parts manual shows about 8 different 0-rings for the tilt valve section. That valve is buried deep in the middle of the machine. Some of the 0 rings are just seals for the inlet and outlet connections. Probably one of the internal rings is the problem. However, there are also internal springs and valves which could also be an issue.

 

[radman1]

Update. Dealer tells me there is a leak in the tilt cylinder valve. They are ordering a new one.

 

[DEWFPO]

Update. Dealer tells me there is a leak in the tilt cylinder valve. They are ordering a new one.

Radman1, Please find out which valve and a P/N if you can, I'd appreciate it greatly.

DEWFPO

 

[radman1]

Radman1, Please find out which valve and a P/N if you can, I'd appreciate it greatly.

DEWFPO

It should be the tilt valve. P/N 6691180 according to my parts manual. Service guy said it was about $115, which seems kind of cheap for most valve sections. They are ordering the part. I took it home from the dealer until the part arrives.

Yesterday, I was grading a 3 acre yard getting ready for upcoming seeding. Used it about 4 hours. Loaded it on the trailer and noticed a fast oil drip from the rear end. I think it is coming from the left rear seal on the drive motor. ARG!

 

[DEWFPO]

It should be the tilt valve. P/N 6691180 according to my parts manual. Service guy said it was about $115, which seems kind of cheap for most valve sections. They are ordering the part. I took it home from the dealer until the part arrives.

Yesterday, I was grading a 3 acre yard getting ready for upcoming seeding. Used it about 4 hours. Loaded it on the trailer and noticed a fast oil drip from the rear end. I think it is coming from the left rear seal on the drive motor. ARG!

Thanks Radman1, once they've replaced it and your satisfied, please let me know. DEWFPO

 

[radman1]

Thanks Radman1, once they've replaced it and your satisfied, please let me know. DEWFPO

Picked up TC today. They replaced the tilt valve under warranty. After replacing the valve, it was retested and they could not detect any leak. I tried the TC on the empty tree spade. I can detect a very slow, downward tip over a couple of minutes. I believe that is acceptable, given the weight of the spade (1400 lbs) and considering it sits far out the front. The slight tip was measured about 5-6' from the front of the boom. Next, I tried it on the broom. After several minutes, I could not detect any tip. Before, I could visibly see the broom tip down over 15-30 seconds. You need to put a little pressure on you dealer to get yours fixed - before the warranty expires. I will probably add the double piloted check valve to the tilt cylinder since I already have one. It will be interesting to see if the tilt behaves differently with the check valve. My cousin is going to add a lean-too on my brothers 60x100x16' pole barn shed in a few weeks. He will use my 8-9' pallet fork mounted manlift for the project. I don't want to have any tip or settling issues with the TC hydraulics.

They could not find any source for the suspected rear end oil leak. And after running it today for 3-4 hours, I also did not see any oil. Service guy thought it may have burped out some oil from the reservoir. They replaced a quart and I know it was slightly overfilled the last time I added some oil 3-4 weeks ago. I was going back and forth with the tranny frequently, using FEL, 3 pt and TNT a lot. They said sometimes it can happen. I did notice dirt and oil by the filler cap on the reservoir when I initially noticed the leak. Their explanation seems to be the answer.

I have to give a big thumbs up to my Bobcat dealer. Good guys to deal with. They also washed my rather muddy and oily machine after the repairs. It helps that I have purchased the TC, Kubota 3710, and 2 skid steers, several attachments from them in the past several years. The manager/sales guy I deal with is top notch. He just returned from a 2 week trip to China. He was the top or near the top in Kubota sales this past year. Kubota paid the entire trip for 2.

 

[DEWFPO]

Picked up TC today. They replaced the tilt valve under warranty. After replacing the valve, it was retested and they could not detect any leak. I tried the TC on the empty tree spade. I can detect a very slow, downward tip over a couple of minutes. I believe that is acceptable, given the weight of the spade (1400 lbs) and considering it sits far out the front. The slight tip was measured about 5-6' from the front of the boom. Next, I tried it on the broom. After several minutes, I could not detect any tip. Before, I could visibly see the broom tip down over 15-30 seconds. You need to put a little pressure on you dealer to get yours fixed - before the warranty expires. I will probably add the double piloted check valve to the tilt cylinder since I already have one. It will be interesting to see if the tilt behaves differently with the check valve. My cousin is going to add a lean-too on my brothers 60x100x16' pole barn shed in a few weeks. He will use my 8-9' pallet fork mounted manlift for the project. I don't want to have any tip or settling issues with the TC hydraulics.

Thanks for the info Radman1, I will continue to pursue this issue with the dealer. Let me know how you feel about the repairs after you've used it a while. I'd also like to hear your observations after the addition of the check valve.

DEWFPO

 

[radman1]

DEWFPO

Installed the check valve on the curl cylinder today. It works great and has no issues. I haven't tried it out with heavy equipment on the front. I bought the Vickers check valve off e-bay for $60. Bought 12" hose, several fittings and used a short peice of hose 6" that I had laying around. The hoses on the TC cylinder have different ends and lengths. Took a little trial and error to figure out how to do the setup. It is not the cleanest look but functional. To do it perfectly would require custom made hoses.

Have you been able to get yours fixed?

 

[DEWFPO]

Radman1,

Thanks for the reminder. The service manager left here saying he was going to get back to me. That was 1 month ago (tomorrow). I did send him an e-mail note about 1 week later and haven't heard back from him. I'll have to get in touch with him again.

We were supposed to get a couple feet of snow but nothing yet. If it hits I'll be giving that curl cylinder a workout.

Did replacement of the tilt valve completely solve the problem? It sounds like maybe not since you installed the check valve.

If the check valve solves the problem I mat ask you for a parts list and cob one together myself. Let me know how that new check valve works out with hot oil and a heavy load on the curl cylinder.

Thanks Again,

DEWFPO

 

[radman1]

Replacing the tilt valve completely fixed my problem with the curl cylinder issue. I got the check valve (actually bought 2) before the problem with the valve. I installed the check valve more as insurance for the tilt valve. Have upcoming job of adding a lean-to on existing shed. I have a 8' tall manlift with cage that fits on my pallet forks. I want it to be completely stationary and not tip from the tilt cylinder for that job so I added it. I tend to lift loads that I shouldn't and want the extra protection of the check valve. I tried lifting a load 1 week ago and lifted the back end of the TC off the ground.

You need to bug your service guy more and get yours fixed. Give me his number and I'll talk with him! It would be impossible to use a rotary broom with yours because to the severe tip. At first my dealer's service guy tested it by putting some weights in the bucket and measuring the drift. Said it was acceptable by bobcats standards. I said what does that mean? Told him to put the Bobcat rotary broom or brush mower on the front and check it again. Much more weight and hanging farther out front and they are approved attachments for the TC. A broom needs to have most of it's weight held by the boom to work properly and not wear out the bristles. Then he began to see it my way. He actually went so far, that he had to order some special equipment to check the integrity of the valve. The valve wasn't priced to bad but I suspect the labor was high. I brought them a muddy machine with oil over the 3 point from a leaking fitting on my TNT. They even returned the machine to me clean.

 

[radman1]

Update on the check valve. The check valve works poorly when using the tilt cylinder with any significant weight on the loader. As the cylinder extends, the valve and cylinder chatter. Works fine when retracting. I believe the chatter is due to the negative pressure on the valve\cylinder when tipping the cylinder down. Had to remove the check valve.

 

[DEWFPO]

Thanks for updating us Radman1.

DEWFPO

 

[DEWFPO]

Well, they came and took my Toolcat away today. They said they'll be replacing the tilt/curl valve assembly. Radman1, I gave them the P/N you provided to make it easier on them. Thanks and wish me luck.

DEWFPO

 

[DEWFPO]

Finally got the Toolcat back yesterday at 8 pm after 47 days at the dealership. They replaced the tilt valve and the boom. While I had them change out the tilt valve I had them check into why the bob-tach sat unevenly on the machine. One side was 1 full inch lower than the other. With the snowblade or the snowblower on it, it was very obvious something was out of whack. The mechanic couldn't figure it out so they waited for a factory rep to come into town and look at it. He authorized replacing the boom. The bob-tach now sits within 3/16" side to side. The tilt cylinder doesn't seem much better, and that with the lightweight (as compared to the SB-200) low profile bucket and a few hundred pounds in it. Oh well.

DEWFPO

 

[J_J]

DEWFPO,

How is the tilt not working like you expected? How does it compare to another unit, same model? If it doesn't compare, make them fix it right. Is it not working fast enough, or leaking down?

 

[SPYDERLK]

Pls revisit post 20. I know the dealer ultimately reported it as a valve fix on one case, but the same action on the other was ineffective. There may be different reasons for the same symptom. Also, I have experienced cases where a shop gets embarrassed at missing something the 1st time and doesnt report everything done to finally fix it when its brought back. Different direction of force can affect the sealing at the piston/rod if the nut is loose
larry

 

[J_J]

Larry,

The nut would not stay loose for long, it would eventually come off. In the mean time, if it was loose, you should hear a clunk or be able to watch the shaft move in relation to the handle movement. Do you have an automatic leveling device that might not be working. The only way to test the cylinder is to take it off and let a hyd shop test it. If that valve does not have the ability to make a good cylinder go to relief at cylinder stop points, then something is wrong. There are supposed to be checks in the valve to prevent cylinder movement while shifting the valve. Does the lift cylinders go to relief when at the stops? If it does, then you know you are operating at the relief pressure. You say they changed the valve, then it has to be the cylinder or something like an auto leveling device.

 

[DEWFPO]

DEWFPO,

How is the tilt not working like you expected? How does it compare to another unit, same model? If it doesn't compare, make them fix it right. Is it not working fast enough, or leaking down?

J_J, the curl cylinder doesn't hold pressure as well as I'd like. The heavier the load, the hotter the oil the faster the bucket, snowblower, etc... starts to tilt lower. It's not fast but it's noticeable and easily measurable, especially when you're trying to hold a load up steady. Engine running or not does not matter. It's not unworkable by any means but my tractor was always rock solid.

DEWFPO

 

[J_J]

J_J, the curl cylinder doesn't hold pressure as well as I'd like. The heavier the load, the hotter the oil the faster the bucket, snowblower, etc... starts to tilt lower. It's not fast but it's noticeable and easily measurable, especially when you're trying to hold a load up steady. Engine running or not does not matter. It's not unworkable by any means but my tractor was always rock solid.

DEWFPO

If the relief does not work, and the cyl hasn't been replaced, it should be easy to unhook and take off and have a hyd shop verify the cylinder is working like it is supposed to. Otherwise , check it on their hyd bench. With cylinder connected, when he throws that valve to extend or retract, he should be able to tell you if it is good or bad. If it makes the relief valve on his system go off, it should test good. A lot of guys, don't want to take things apart, but unless you have some hyd gages, and know how to use them, you will not know what to take apart. I believe you have one tilt cylinder, so add a tee connection and put a gage in line and when you tilt, you should be able to read the pressure. You will not read much pressure unless you are tilting a full load, or the cylinder is fully retracted or extended. Tilting an empty bucket up and down will not show very much pressure, until you get to the end of cylinder travel.

Stay on them until it's fixed, and hint that if they can not fix it, then maybe the district manager might have to be included. Keep a log of time lost , even if you are not using it in a business. Time is money. Waiting until the trouble shooter comes around, just ain't good enough. They could have replaced the cylinder just to check it, and if all the cylinders did the same thing, that is a manufacture problem. You might ask if their have been any service bulletins relating to the same problem. You might even ask to read all the service bulletins, you might just find some more stuff they don't tell everyone.

 

[SPYDERLK]

it depends on the pump delivery relative to cyl leak rate whether a relief valve will crack at end of cyl stroke. He has a slow leak evidenced by cyl leakdown with valve centered. The relief, even if it was leaking would have no effect there. Potential sources of the described symptom are internal leaks at piston or rod, hose leaks between cyl and valve, and spool leaks in the valve. Assuming no oil on ground and I think valve was replaced?
larry