Property lines

[ultrarunner]

The county had a GPS "Survey" done along one side of my land. The Surveyor was very friendly and showed me how it worked.

He said accuracy is a function of the number of satellites and known reference points. He had 3 small transmitter/receiver antennas set up on 3 surrounding hilltops. He told me the accuracy of the stakes he was setting was within 8 inches and using GPS technology allowed a single man to do thee work that previously required several men.

 

[SnowRidge]

The county had a GPS "Survey" done along one side of my land. The Surveyor was very friendly and showed me how it worked.

He said accuracy is a function of the number of satellites and known reference points. He had 3 small transmitter/receiver antennas set up on 3 surrounding hilltops. He told me the accuracy of the stakes he was setting was within 8 inches and using GPS technology allowed a single man to do thee work that previously required several men.

Yes, but go price GPS based surveying equipment. It is very expensive, and you can't do it with consumer grade GPS equipment. You are talking an entirely different ball game.

Eight inch accuracy seems pretty lousy to me for a professional surveryor.

 

[ultrarunner]

The county order a tree survey of all Oak Trees with a 4 inch or greater dia. at breast height and all other trees 8 inch dia. or greater at breast height.

Guess there is some wiggle room depending on whose breasts are being referenced? Sorry, it just sounded funny when he explained it...

 

[shaley]

Consumer grade GPS reads to a 3 place decimal. 6070 ft in a mile so the resolution is +-6 ft. That is resolution only and accuracy can't be better than than stated resolution and most are about +- 15 feet with the WAAS system functioning.
Surveying GPS is much different. Sometimes it takes 20 minutes to acquire a position with full post processing but it will be +- 1 CM (3/8"). These units sell for about 15k so it saves the surveyor time by not requiring a clear line but cost him money which he passes to the customer
The real time in marking property lines is clearing the brush for line of sight. Clear your line and ask a surveyor what he would charge to shoot the line. I bet he could do it in an afternoon.

 

[SnowRidge]

Consumer grade GPS reads to a 3 place decimal. 6070 ft in a mile so the resolution is +-6 ft. That is resolution only and accuracy can't be better than than stated resolution and most are about +- 15 feet with the WAAS system functioning.
Surveying GPS is much different. Sometimes it takes 20 minutes to acquire a position with full post processing but it will be +- 1 CM (3/8"). These units sell for about 15k so it saves the surveyor time by not requiring a clear line but cost him money which he passes to the customer
The real time in marking property lines is clearing the brush for line of sight. Clear your line and ask a surveyor what he would charge to shoot the line. I bet he could do it in an afternoon.

I just had a survey done. It was rather complicated in that it plats four separate parcels. I was on the property with them when they did it, and they will be doing another one for me on another piece of property Wednesday.

They did not have to clear any brush, except for two of the corners which were completely overgrown. To get from one corner to another that couldn't be seen, which were most of them, they ran traverses instead of clearing the brush, which in some cases were full grown trees. I asked for a mid line mark at one point. They couldn't see it from either corner, so they ran a traverse to locate it. It only took them a few minutes.

 

[MossRoad]

I just had a survey done. It was rather complicated in that it plats four separate parcels. I was on the property with them when they did it, and they will be doing another one for me on another piece of property Wednesday.

They did not have to clear any brush, except for two of the corners which were completely overgrown. To get from one corner to another that couldn't be seen, which were most of them, they ran traverses instead of clearing the brush, which in some cases were full grown trees. I asked for a mid line mark at one point. They couldn't see it from either corner, so they ran a traverse to locate it. It only took them a few minutes.

Pretty soon we'll be talking about surveying saying something like, "Back when it was a skill and not a task."

 

[Willis Fecon Bushhogging]

I used a GPS to set my boundaries. I started by landmarking the front corner, then turned off the meter, went to the back corner turned it back on and landmarked it. The GPS automatically drew a straight line between the two landmarks. I then followed the line back, marking trees as I went.

I have a Fecon FTX90L mulching machine and I was thinking of doing the same thing with the GPS. Just wondered what model you used. I am a retired boat Captain and I really liked the Garmin brand.
Thanks for a reply

 

[SnowRidge]

Pretty soon we'll be talking about surveying saying something like, "Back when it was a skill and not a task."

It's still a skill. They used to run traverses in the "old days." They still do it with modern equipment. I couldn't begin to do what these guys did. The guy in charge was a CE and a Registered Professional Engineer. I'm sure his bill will reflect that.

 

[firedog]

I have a Fecon FTX90L mulching machine and I was thinking of doing the same thing with the GPS. Just wondered what model you used. I am a retired boat Captain and I really liked the Garmin brand.
Thanks for a reply

I used a magellan 315 handheld. I've had it several years, and am quite sure there are much better ones out now. My thinking was not to necessarily set the boundary or fenceline with it, but give me a good idea of where to clear the woods. My corners have been marked, and I've already turned the angles and fenced the front 1 1/2 acres, But the back is heavily wooded. No real way to move off to the side and shoot any measurement, as its all wooded.
(plus I'm on the cheap side) The land slopes at an angle about 45 deg off from the property line, which gives you a natural tendency to veer off from the direction you started it.
I'm clearing about a 15' - 20' swath, so I can come back and shoot it with a transit.

 

[RonMar]

We bought the same GPS and I'm trying to figure out how to load up the right files. It can't be less accurate than a hand held compass and the Mark I eyeball. Dan

Unless it is a GPS specifically designed for survey work, you can easilly beat it's accuracy with a plumb bob and carefull sighting along plummed stakes. The calculating function of a survey GPS is of a higher resolution, mostly due to the averaging of the input signals. Perhaps the biggest differance between one and a consumer grade handheld is the antenna used. Consumer handheld GPS's are a comprimise of function and size/form with the antenna being a small portion of the entire package. Survey GPS units are typically mounted on a handheld pole with the receiver on the side and the antenna affixed to the top. the antenna is easilly as large as the receiver. The larger antenna allows a higher signal to noise ratio which allows more sattelites to be tracked(and more average samples) at a given location, particularly when back under the trees. The extremely precise units have an antenna that is quite large(14"-18" across) and cost many times what the precision receiver does.

 

[BruceR]

Consumer grade GPS reads to a 3 place decimal. 6070 ft in a mile so the resolution is +-6 ft. That is resolution only and accuracy can't be better than than stated resolution and most are about +- 15 feet with the WAAS system functioning.

The real time in marking property lines is clearing the brush for line of sight. Clear your line and ask a surveyor what he would charge to shoot the line. I bet he could do it in an afternoon.

Good advice Shaley, but we use a much shorter mile in these parts

Our GPS gives sub-centimeter accuracy with post processing. Also, pine trees can really mess up your reading. Something about the needles being the same length as the radio wave. GPS is nothing more than a calculating a distance-distance-distance-etc. intersection. The more sat's you read, the better your results, Ours read up to 12 at one time. Only problem is sometimes there might only be 3-5 that are readable.

You don't have to clear the property line for the surveyor. Just get a line cleared close, less that 30 feet would be good, dosn't even have to be straight, dosn't have to be very wide, line of sight is all thats needed. Any surveyor should be able to run a "random line" traverse , zig-zagging around trees when necessary and then calc a perpendicular offset from the traverse line to the property line. The more traverse points, the more points they have to mark your line from. If they make one long shot from corner to corner then suggest that they set some POT's ( point-on-tangent ) along their traverse line for you so there are intermediate points to mark your line from. Sometimes we will prepare a sketch for the client showing the offset from our traverse line to the property line so they can save a few bucks by marking the offset themselves.

The main problem with running just one line is that the Surveyor can not tell you that is your property line unless he has already done your whole parcel. All they can tell you is that they are marking a straight line between two points for you. Whole lot of liability issues there.

Bruce
RPLS 5781

 

[SpringHollow]

I marked my property lines with a compass (corrected), existing corner stakes, and long aluminum poles with survey tape wrapped for visibility and levels strapped on for for plumb). I then set painted metal stakes every so often and put up posted signs. The "long" lot lines were 1400' long, heavily obscured with scrub/trees, and steep. My neighbor saw the results and thought I had posted most of his property so he brought in a surveyor. My largest error was 1" so I was impressed (so was the surveyor). The neighbor got disoriented every time he went in the woods so he thought he owned his property and mine! Even though I did well, I personally would not use any non-professionanal method on a large lot to determine lot lines for anything important such as buildings or cutting down any trees. If you make a mistake, it could be costly. I would not even slash the property line without approval from the neighbor in case you are off a little. For putting up posted signs, I did not have a problem doing my own work. In hind site - I should have mentioned it first to the neighbor as recommended here but I thought it was a fairly straightforward project and did not foresee the problem.

Ken

 

[Egon]

Moss, were you thinking of Wild, steel tapes, plum bob's, thermometers, small line levels and tension gauges??

 

[jinman]

Good advice Shaley, but we use a much shorter mile in these parts

Bruce, I agree with you and Shaley. I'd say you need to "bite the bullet" and hire a surveyor. That's what I did on one of my properties. They did a great job on marking the line about every 200 feet. I put t-posts down by each pin to mark the line and now it is a snap to clear brush and sight right down the line even though the corners are not visible to each other. There are many more benefits to a good survey than just knowing where your line is. The credibility of your line for legal purposes is established by an unbiased source. I am a great fan of surveyors.

 

[MossRoad]

Moss, were you thinking of Wild, steel tapes, plum bob's, thermometers, small line levels and tension gauges??

No. I confess... I was just being a smarty boots.

 

[shaley]

Good advice Shaley, but we use a much shorter mile in these parts

What ever hapened to a "Texas Mile"

The county I live in was founded in 1635. Make for some interesting reading for metes and bounds deeds/plats. I'm amazed how many 100 year traverses I've come behind and found they closed within 1/20,000 which is still our standard today.

 

[Egon]

Moss; for the touchy stuff I forgot to add the six place log tables!

 

[rgood]

OK, While we are on this subject of property lines - I have one neighbor that is a real pain - And I'm going to be putting up fence soon - What I'm planning to do is put my fence (not on the boundary between us) but on 8 feet onto my land). My logic being I can then mow outside of my fence and keep the brush off, so it will last a lot longer. I can also drive my horse and cart down that lane. My concern is, he'll think the fence represents the property line. I know many will say, meet him and discuss it - He's a Mega Land owner - And he lives out of the state. Any thoughts/ideas/concerns

 

[MossRoad]

OK, While we are on this subject of property lines - I have one neighbor that is a real pain - And I'm going to be putting up fence soon - What I'm planning to do is put my fence (not on the boundary between us) but on 8 feet onto my land). My logic being I can then mow outside of my fence and keep the brush off, so it will last a lot longer. I can also drive my horse and cart down that lane. My concern is, he'll think the fence represents the property line. I know many will say, meet him and discuss it - He's a Mega Land owner - And he lives out of the state. Any thoughts/ideas/concerns

Yes. Every 50-100 yards sink a 4X4 post with a birdhouse on it right on the property line. Then put your fence 8' into your land. Make it a nice, mowed lane and there will be no question as to who owns it.

 

[SnowRidge]

That seems like a good way to set yourself up for adverse possession. To prevent that, you will have to give him written permission to use that eight feet -- or somehow keep him from using it. Either way, I would expect problems if he is the pain you say he is.

You might find it worth your while to buy an hour of a real estate attorney's time.