Generator PTO generator feedback

[Soundguy]

-IF- I have to run an extension cord outside in the rain, I put a big glop of greae on the contacts and plug it in, then make a loop at the plug in, and stick that in a plastic bag, rubber band it, 'open end' down, then prop it on something to keep it off the ground so pooled water don't infiltrate...

soundguy

 

[gerard]

-IF- I have to run an extension cord outside in the rain, I put a big glop of greae on the contacts and plug it in, then make a loop at the plug in, and stick that in a plastic bag, rubber band it, 'open end' down, then prop it on something to keep it off the ground so pooled water don't infiltrate...

soundguy

Thanx soundguy -you saved me a post because I would NOT run an unprotected extension cord in the weather. The previous poster mentions 120 volts like it's not much. Go grab a live 120 volt plug and give yourself a nice solid path to ground, then re post your experience......... (and I'm not shy around electric. Don't even mind working on live 120 volt outlets as long as I'm not providing a goos ground, ie rubber soled shoes standing on hardwood with light contact etc. Big difference if you give a nice solid path to ground which you can do in a rain situation. PS That rainwater is NOT distilled water, especially once it hits the ground)

 

[Redneck in training]

Rainwater might be slightly conductive due to dissolved CO2 and dust in it. When it gets in contact with ground and contaminated that is another story altogether. I will do an experiment one of those days and catch some rain water or snow before it contacts ground and measure the conductivity and compare it with my well and city water.
In fact we use de-mineralized water for cooling of power electronics for variable frequency drives for large machines (many megawatts and voltage in range of thousands of volts). The water is passed trough catex and ionex resin filters to remove minerals to make it nonconductive.

 

[brin]

How do the PTO types regulate load?
Do they just leave the tractor running at what ever throttle achieves 540 rpm, (and waste the extra hp) or somehow load the tractor so it can respond?

Based on what little I have observed (Honda size and also factory sized) they all communcate the load applied back to the throttle somehow - that seems like the biggest advantage to a package over an unwatched PTO.

I have a generac 20 KW PTO generator with a 40KW surge and it is more than enough to power our whole house. When we have Ice Storms we can have power out for up to 4 or 5 days..at least so far. The generator works great - I plug the house into the generator , flip the transfer switch and start the tractor and move the throttle slowly to 540 RPM and it sits there just fine. I use my NH TC - 29 and if I need the tractor for another purpose ...I warm or cool the house and then unplug for long enough to take care of the chore and then plug back in ..it is no big deal..I chose this PTO genny instead of a stand alone since I already had the tractor and it always starts as opposed to buying another engine to worry about. My tractor burns about 6 gallons of diesel in 8 hrs at 540 RPM so then I shut it down fill it with fuel and check the oil and gear case oil in the genny and I am back up and running. I do not run the generator when we go to sleep at night..We warm the house up and turn it off and the next morning fire it up again. It works for us.

 

[Egon]

Rainwater might be slightly conductive due to dissolved CO2 and dust in it.

We take it that you are willing to use your finger to test it!!!

 

[Diamondpilot]

I do not run the generator when we go to sleep at night..We warm the house up and turn it off and the next morning fire it up again. It works for us.

That would not work much North of where you are. Our temps run in the 10 deg range at night so busted pipes and a cold wife would be a big issue.

Chris

 

[dieselsmoke1]

I run an MF 285 and 1135 powering PTO irrigation pumps pulling guns for literally hundreds of hours. We're talking near max rpm's and near max HP required for the 285. Of course i kept a watch on them and checked all fluids at each refill, along with removing the grill screen to facilitate better cooling. I don't have a PTO genny but would have no compunction about tying one on and taching it up if that's what i need my piece to do at the time. If it's not up to the task, it needs to belong to someone else.

 

[zzvyb6]

Aren't most good pto alternators 220-240v? If so, you'd better give it a lot more courtesy. Mine is 240v so I power up both sides of the inhouse box. I usually throw a tarp over the rear of the alternator if there are rain issues. Some people around here park it in a "doghouse" with only the pto shaft poking out.

It also needs to be said that you don't need to run the thing 24/7. In the worst of winter weather, I run it until the house is super warm, then shut it down. Heat lasts 3 -4 hours. That's also when all the toilet flushing, showering and water troughs are filled. Then it gets shut down until we need it again. That means you think about opening doors and using water for good reasons, not for foolish ones.

Same for summer except A/C can be engaged in the afternood until later in the evening. Stupid to run it all the time in my opinion...

 

[mattman]

Thanks guys with real experience on using a pto genny. I feel a 15kw will run everything I want to run, thats why I was not very interested in a standalone because you have to get a high priced standalone to make that kind of juice.

Keep the info coming on what brand you have and if you are happy with it's performance.

Thanks Mattman

 

[Soundguy]

my northstar, while not one of the spendier units has served me well, especially during the hurricane years in florida.

soundguy

 

[bucmeister]

Guess I am an odd man out on this issue. I now have both a PTO and a portable. A hand me down 13kW Northstar PTO for long outages when it is hot and we want to run the A/C to sleep and a 6.5kW Silent Diesel for most all the rest of the time. The 6.5 will give me about 12 hours on 3 gallons with our average load, which saves enough fuel to justify running the tractor for 8 hours at night to cool the house for comfortable sleeping. I would never want to have to run the PTO with my 50hp tractor when the small unit will do just fine.

 

[Soundguy]

I bet if you added up the fuel usage per kw generated.. I bet you the fuel cost would be VERY close. especially if it is a modern diesel tractor. Just because it is a 50hp tractor doesn't mean it's putting out 50hp when it's running the genny... a 13kw genny should consume a max of 26hp or actually, a bit less. And,, that will be at max electrical load.. lower loads will mean less hp needed, controlled by the governor and throttle.. less hp will mean less fuel.. modern turbocharged diesel engine are pretty darn efficient.

Look at it like this.. My 70hp diesel ford 5000 uses less 'dollars of fuel' to run my 12.5kw genny than my 33hp gasser ford 660 uses on a similar task, IE.. running my well on my farm property when I had an extended outtage... that diesel isn't even turboed either... but is more efficient than that gasser... I didnb't even attempt to run it wiuth my 850..it's even more gas hungry than the 660 on a bad day...

soundguy

 

[dex3361]

Guess I am an odd man out on this issue. I now have both a PTO and a portable. A hand me down 13kW Northstar PTO for long outages when it is hot and we want to run the A/C to sleep and a 6.5kW Silent Diesel for most all the rest of the time. The 6.5 will give me about 12 hours on 3 gallons with our average load, which saves enough fuel to justify running the tractor for 8 hours at night to cool the house for comfortable sleeping. I would never want to have to run the PTO with my 50hp tractor when the small unit will do just fine.

What brand silent diesel do you have and how many hours run time?

 

[bucmeister]

I bet if you added up the fuel usage per kw generated.. I bet you the fuel cost would be VERY close. especially if it is a modern diesel tractor. Just because it is a 50hp tractor doesn't mean it's putting out 50hp when it's running the genny... a 13kw genny should consume a max of 26hp or actually, a bit less. And,, that will be at max electrical load.. lower loads will mean less hp needed, controlled by the governor and throttle.. less hp will mean less fuel.. modern turbocharged diesel engine are pretty darn efficient.

Look at it like this.. My 70hp diesel ford 5000 uses less 'dollars of fuel' to run my 12.5kw genny than my 33hp gasser ford 660 uses on a similar task, IE.. running my well on my farm property when I had an extended outtage... that diesel isn't even turboed either... but is more efficient than that gasser... I didnb't even attempt to run it wiuth my 850..it's even more gas hungry than the 660 on a bad day...

soundguy

I understand what you are getting at and if the 6.5 was running continuously at full load it would definitely go through more fuel, my comparison of it to the portable gas unit was only to illustrate why I am (so far) happy with the little Chinese made unit. How it will hold up long term is a whole other issue that only time will tell. The tractor is a '95 JD5300. When mowing grass with my 84" finishing mower it will easily go through 8 gallons in the 5 hours it takes to do the yard. I have not yet hooked the generator to the tractor and put the test load on for a few hours to test consumption so it may not be a lot of difference. Sometime this summer that may well happen. However, I will just about bet that the tractor would burn more than 3 to 4 gallons of fuel in 12 hours just spinning the gen at the proper pto speed with no added load, but I could be wrong.

The big factor many times is convenience. The 6.5 stays under the carport out of the rain and can be positioned, cranked to warm up, breakers flipped, then power applied to the house in 15 minutes, whereas it would be a lot more involved process to go to the tractor shed, drop whatever equipment is on the tractor to then connect to the gen then bring the combo to the house for the typical 1-3 hour run we experience around here. Also, the small unit is secured to column and I am willing to leave the small unit running during the day while at work, if necessary, whereas I would not do so with the tractor because it may drive off with some help.

 

[bucmeister]

What brand silent diesel do you have and how many hours run time?

The unit is setting at my hunting camp at present and the name on the cover escapes me, Sensee or something strange like that. This is one of the Chinese units we see so many of these days and so far we only have 30+ hours run time on it. Not sure what the long term is going to be. If we get as good of service out of it as we have the '89 Coleman 4kW it will be a good value.

 

[Soundguy]

While the larger engine may burn a tad more fuel just for differences in spinning mass.. compairing diesel usage to diesel usage on the 2 gennies at the same electrical load level over the same time period.. I'd still lay my 2$ on them having such close fuel usage as to be negligible. The convienience factor, however, as you pointed out, is plenty enough to justify either combination as the owner see's fit.

soundguy

I understand what you are getting at and if the 6.5 was running continuously at full load it would definitely go through more fuel, my comparison of it to the portable gas unit was only to illustrate why I am (so far) happy with the little Chinese made unit. How it will hold up long term is a whole other issue that only time will tell. The tractor is a '95 JD5300. When mowing grass with my 84" finishing mower it will easily go through 8 gallons in the 5 hours it takes to do the yard. I have not yet hooked the generator to the tractor and put the test load on for a few hours to test consumption so it may not be a lot of difference. Sometime this summer that may well happen. However, I will just about bet that the tractor would burn more than 3 to 4 gallons of fuel in 12 hours just spinning the gen at the proper pto speed with no added load, but I could be wrong.

The big factor many times is convenience. The 6.5 stays under the carport out of the rain and can be positioned, cranked to warm up, breakers flipped, then power applied to the house in 15 minutes, whereas it would be a lot more involved process to go to the tractor shed, drop whatever equipment is on the tractor to then connect to the gen then bring the combo to the house for the typical 1-3 hour run we experience around here. Also, the small unit is secured to column and I am willing to leave the small unit running during the day while at work, if necessary, whereas I would not do so with the tractor because it may drive off with some help.

 

[SPYDERLK]

While the larger engine may burn a tad more fuel just for differences in spinning mass.. compairing diesel usage to diesel usage on the 2 gennies at the same electrical load level over the same time period.. I'd still lay my 2$ on them having such close fuel usage as to be negligible. The convienience factor, however, as you pointed out, is plenty enough to justify either combination as the owner see's fit.

soundguy

I wouldnt. The pumping and friction losses in the bigger engine will be a factor as you say. But more importantly, the standalone doesnt have the PTO transmission loss exhibited in the tractor and the genny gearbox. The end to end connection of engine to generator in a standalone approaches 0% loss of power. So, with near equal efficient engines and generators the standalone will be much more sparing of fuel use.
larry

 

[Soundguy]

I'm not ready to call the chinese standalone engine equal to one I might see in a modern 1st or 2nd tier tractor brand....

soundguy

 

[BobRip]

I'm not ready to call the chinese standalone engine equal to one I might see in a modern 1st or 2nd tier tractor brand....

soundguy

Please keep us updated when you get some more run time.

 

[Soundguy]

I agree. Some significant hours, plus fuelk usage numbers with a kwmeter would help out here.

soundguy