Generator PTO generator feedback

[Soundguy]

I bought my tractors to work.. and I'm not afraid to work them.

Not much differenc ein brush hogging for 8 hrs or running a pto load for a genny for 8 hours... work is work.. That's like buying a nice shiney strong shovel and setting it on the porch so you don't get it too dirty, and then buying a cheaper plain shovel to actually dig with ??

soundguy

Personally I would never run my tractor to power a generator. Last power outage for me was three days. I paid $300 for a brand new 6K, 13HP generator. I change the oil every 25 hours and I'm good to go. It blows up, I buy another, my neighbor ran his for 8 days straight with no issues what so ever. I could not imagine putting that kind of hours on my tractor when there are inexpensive alternative purpose built machines.

A couple hundred dollar generator motor is a lot easier to replace than a $3K tractor motor.

In the end, my purpose built generator was less money than a 3 point would cost.

Joel

 

[brandoro]

I can tell you from experience that my 12kW Northstar pto gen runs a very hot gearbox at just medium output - - the whole area in contact with the gearbox runs hot [front of gen and pto coupling] ... even after I broke it in and then switched to Mobil 1 gearoil.

I have a 10kw PTO generator and after running a constant 7800 watt load (4800 watt construction heater and two 1500 watt heaters, all fan forced) for about an hour the gearbox and generator were only a bit warmer than my hand. This was with the original oil in the gearbox. One day I will switch it to synthetic and will expect it to run cooler yet.
As for piling up hours on my tractor, that is what I bought it for, to run any piece of equipment I can connect to it. None of the tractors I have owned has used enough oil between changes to be worth mention and I don't know anyone who has ever suffered a loss of oil pressure on their tractor. As a child I remember seeing one of my Grandfather's tractors tied to an irrigation pump for days at a time out in the blazing sun with no one within sight most of the time. I'm not very concerned about the tractor running the generator unattended. I run the tractor with the chipper often enough, if it lost oil pressure unexpectedly I doubt I would get it shut off quickly enough to keep it from spinning a bearing.
Each person has to do what they are comfortable with and buy the generator that they feel will suit their particular circumstance the best.

 

[dex3361]

There are differing circumstances which dictate what will be best for each individual. If I had frequent outages and it was imperative that I have the entire House supplied with electricity I would choose a PTO generator because a portable/stand alone of the same KW capacity would be to expensive for me to justify/purchase. I on the other hand, got by OK on a 4KW Coleman Powermate for 18 years, the only real inconvenience was not having the ability to heat water(All Electric). The new Aurora 6.5KW generator will allow me to heat water so it will be better. The other issue on my older generator was the 1 gallon gas tank that required refilling every 2 hours (moderate load of +-2KW). The new diesel generator should run about 11-12 hours on a 3 gallon fuel tank. I must admit I didn't want to buy a Chinese made unit but the price was about 1/3 of what the same design Yanmar unit. The Chinese generator is a clone of the Yanmar and it appears to be good quality.

 

[SPYDERLK]

I have a 10kw PTO generator and after running a constant 7800 watt load (4800 watt construction heater and two 1500 watt heaters, all fan forced) for about an hour the gearbox and generator were only a bit warmer than my hand. This was with the original oil in the gearbox. One day I will switch it to synthetic and will expect it to run cooler yet.
As for piling up hours on my tractor, that is what I bought it for, to run any piece of equipment I can connect to it. None of the tractors I have owned has used enough oil between changes to be worth mention and I don't know anyone who has ever suffered a loss of oil pressure on their tractor. As a child I remember seeing one of my Grandfather's tractors tied to an irrigation pump for days at a time out in the blazing sun with no one within sight most of the time. I'm not very concerned about the tractor running the generator unattended. I run the tractor with the chipper often enough, if it lost oil pressure unexpectedly I doubt I would get it shut off quickly enough to keep it from spinning a bearing.
Each person has to do what they are comfortable with and buy the generator that they feel will suit their particular circumstance the best.

Interesting... Extremely different from mine. Is yours an 1800 rpm alternator or 3600? Is it designed for 540 or 1000 pto? Approximately what was the air temperature.?
Thanks!,
larry

 

[brandoro]

Interesting... Extremely different from mine. Is yours an 1800 rpm alternator or 3600? Is it designed for 540 or 1000 pto? Approximately what was the air temperature.?
Thanks!,
larry

It's for a 540RPM PTO. Since I had the tractor running in the shop with the exhaust piped outside the temperature would have been 50-60F. I can't tell you off hand what RPM the generator runs at and I won't be home for a while to check the nameplate. In the photos I had two 1500 watt heaters plugged in to see how well the tractor did (B7610) at the higher RPM PTO at lower throttle. It carried it okay but seemed like it was lugging a bit. The current tractor has only 540 RPM so couldn't do that with it.

 

[Soundguy]

lower priced gen heads are usually 3600 rpm units.. etc..

soundguy

 

[Arkhermit]

I sure have enjoyed reading all these posts, BUT I can't see any consenseus on which is the best. Has anyone changed their mind after reading all this ? During the ice storm last year here in North Arkansas I was without power 14 days I started out with 10KW standalone and then switched to 15 KW pto run by 3600 ford only thing was I could run all day on diesel. One thing I found out is be ready ahead of time. I couldn't get the tractor up the hill to house so had to use standalone but had enough gas for it.

 

[DANOCHEESE]

Wiht all this power outage talk, I consider myself lucky. 4 years rural power one outage for 30 minutes faulted primary. We have had three blizzards this year and the power stayed on. I think I will drop off some rolls for the lineman. I hope I did'nt jinx myself.

I know a dairy farmer who got got mad at the power company over cost issue. He ran the entire farm off a PTO gen for 30 days. He said the pwer company was,nt geting his money that month. He would never tell me how much fuel he used.

 

[Soundguy]

I sure have enjoyed reading all these posts, BUT I can't see any consenseus on which is the best. Has anyone changed their mind after reading all this ? During the ice storm last year here in North Arkansas I was without power 14 days I started out with 10KW standalone and then switched to 15 KW pto run by 3600 ford only thing was I could run all day on diesel. One thing I found out is be ready ahead of time. I couldn't get the tractor up the hill to house so had to use standalone but had enough gas for it.

I think it's pretty much a chevy vs ford thing. by the time you buy a pto gen, or a large stand alone.. you've spent your money... I know very few who owned one, and then went and got the other. ( I do know a few.. though not many.. )

soundguy

 

[JB4310]

I sure have enjoyed reading all these posts, BUT I can't see any consenseus on which is the best. Has anyone changed their mind after reading all this ?

That's the beauty of this debate, there is no consensus

There has been great stories of anecdotal evidence supporting both sides.

If you only need 5-6 kw to survive then you probably don't need a tractor powered genny. If you need 12-15 kw and you already have a 30+ HP tractor, then your not gonna find a lesser expensive, or most importantly, a more reliable way to make those higher KWs.

I would like to learn about and hear more discussion on alternative power sources, that would be part of the back up electrical plan. Like a simple bank of deep cell batteries and an inverter, so you wouldn't need to be burning fuel for just a few lights and a TV or computer.
Charge the batteries when you fire up the gen to do the heavier tasks. along the line of better power management.

There was one poster in this thread that said, I'm paraphrasing, "he found the power out so he fired up the generator and went to bed, when he woke in the morning he found the utility power back on so he shut down the genny." He needed to go to work in the morning and needed the power for well or HW, not sure.

That struck me as odd, I don't need electricity at night, I mean I like to watch TV and be on the net. but from 10pm to 6 am our heating system is programmed off, I don't need to make hot water at that time as it stays hot for a long time. sure the house cools down over night but not bad enough to even make 3 kids or wife complain, and that's with temps down to single digits (outside that is).

So for sure I would never be running any type of generator overnight.
Might be harder to resist when it's wicked hot, that could get miserable w/o ac I realize, not like putting on an extra blanket if it's cold.

As far as changing my mind goes, I've got both stand alone and PTO so no regrets, except I wish I got a 15kw pto instead of the of 10kw. All this talk does make me think about ways to make their use as efficient as possible.

JB

 

[Soundguy]

yep.. ditto that.. a full tank of hot water should stay hot a while. if anything.. get up 1 hr early and start the genny and heat some water...

soundguy

 

[BobRip]

T

I would like to learn about and hear more discussion on alternative power sources, that would be part of the back up electrical plan. Like a simple bank of deep cell batteries and an inverter, so you wouldn't need to be burning fuel for just a few lights and a TV or computer.
Charge the batteries when you fire up the gen to do the heavier tasks. along the line of better power management.

JB

JB, good summary on your note.
I bough a 1kw continuous, 3kw peak inverter with 4 large golf cart batteries. My main use was to run my CPAP machine and then also refrigerators. It ran the CPAP machine fine and also a small freezer and a small refrigerator. It would not start my large, 22 cubic foot refrigerator even though it pulls only 200 watts. The peak rating evidently is a very short term rating compared to the start time of a compressor. Note: Don't think you can run a refrigerator a few hours a day and keep food cold and safe. On a duty cycle test on my big refrigerator it ran 50% of the time.

I also had a problem with the battery charger not shutting down and it may have damaged or ruined the batteries. I have not done a prolonged test to see if they are OK.

After a night's use it takes many hours of charging to get back up to full charge.

My experience has not been good. The main learnings are oversize the inverter (the peak rating is meaningless) and be prepared to buy very large batteries and replace then fairly often. Get a really good charger to.
I do plan to use the inverter to run my solar hot water heater pump (40 watts) when needed. It needs power from 11 am to 4 PM. Normally I would not need the generator then. I will also power the small freezer and refrigator.

 

[Soundguy]

buying lots of large batteries and replacing them often? I think that's time to get a generator???.. even a cheaper standalone model...

soudnguy

 

[Diamondpilot]

I am not sure where you guys live but here I do not know of a single house that would not lose 20 or more deg overnight in the winter with the temp at 17 deg like it was that night and wind blowing 30 mph. My home is 11 years old, good doors and windows by Pella and Andersen, 2x6 walls, 30" of attic insulation and still will lose temp quickly in those conditions. My issue was not hot water but the well pump. Why be miserable sleeping in 50 deg house if you spent the money to buy a genny? That is like buying a Corvette and not driving it. I sure as he!! am not sleeping in a house that is 50 deg if I do not have to over 4 gallons of gas. $10 is a cheap price to pay to know that the heat, alarm, kids, wife, ect are all working or happy.

As for letting it run while I sleep I have greater things to worry over. I have a concrete pad with a rebarb loop for both grounding and chaining it too with a heavy cable lock. It is safe. I have let it run for 8 days strait during the ice storm with only shutting it down for 10 minutes every other day to change the oil. I even added fuel with it running. I know, call the safety police on me.

To each his own but I will let mine run when I sleep and fire it up for any power outage over 1 hour. Thats what I bought it for.

I can tell you for a fact that during our last major outage all my neighbors let them run 24/7. Heck I even left mine running when I left to go to the store or out to do chores. I am spoiled and wanted the house warm, the garage door opener working, and the alarm on.


Chris

 

[mattman]

I agree with Diamondpilot, I will run mine all the time if the electricity goes out. That is what I got it for. If I wanted to stay in the dark without water or lights I would not get a generator.

I still don't know which one to get. I was watching a 15kw on ebay that a fellow had. It was 30 years old, probably built better than what you can get today. I did not make him an offer cause of the drive to get it. I may try to message the feller and see what kind of cash price he would take. It would be a long day's drive to go pick it up and come back home. How much is my time worth, it allways seems I have more to do than I can find time to do it in.

 

[BobRip]

I am not sure where you guys live but here I do not know of a single house that would not lose 20 or more deg overnight in the winter with the temp at 17 deg like it was that night and wind blowing 30 mph. My home is 11 years old, good doors and windows by Pella and Andersen, 2x6 walls, 30" of attic insulation and still will lose temp quickly in those conditions. My issue was not hot water but the well pump. Why be miserable sleeping in 50 deg house if you spent the money to buy a genny? That is like buying a Corvette and not driving it. I sure as he!! am not sleeping in a house that is 50 deg if I do not have to over 4 gallons of gas. $10 is a cheap price to pay to know that the heat, alarm, kids, wife, ect are all working or happy.

As for letting it run while I sleep I have greater things to worry over. I have a concrete pad with a rebarb loop for both grounding and chaining it too with a heavy cable lock. It is safe. I have let it run for 8 days strait during the ice storm with only shutting it down for 10 minutes every other day to change the oil. I even added fuel with it running. I know, call the safety police on me.

To each his own but I will let mine run when I sleep and fire it up for any power outage over 1 hour. Thats what I bought it for.

I can tell you for a fact that during our last major outage all my neighbors let them run 24/7. Heck I even left mine running when I left to go to the store or out to do chores. I am spoiled and wanted the house warm, the garage door opener working, and the alarm on.


Chris

Chris, I have a neighbor who does that (24/7). Being in VA we have it a little easier. We have an ICF house, so that's R50 in the walls. I had the house get down to 58 in 3 days of subfreezing weather with only the fireplace for heat. The fireplace area was in the 70's and we stayed there mostly. Sleeping was OK at 60 or so. Best Christmas we every had. I do have a generator, but getting gas was a problem during Isabel and is always a concern during outages. My wife is a girl scout and likes to rough it occasionally, so she is actually happiest when the power is out.

 

[dcyrilc]

I would like to learn about and hear more discussion on alternative power sources, that would be part of the back up electrical plan. Like a simple bank of deep cell batteries and an inverter, so you wouldn't need to be burning fuel for just a few lights and a TV or computer.
Charge the batteries when you fire up the gen to do the heavier tasks. along the line of better power management.

JB

Do a search for threads started by 3rrl. He has a house and shop (200amp main panel) off grid whith solar and gen backup.

 

[dcyrilc]

Our farm is family owned and used by two generations. My wife and I raise cattle, but my mother raises parrots for the pet trade. When my father passed away 11 years ago, my mother was the second largest breeder in Washington at 1400 pairs. Our auto start generators were installed because if you loose power at 1:00am, by the time you find it at 6 or 7, you'll loose every baby in the brooders. $5-10K in losses doesn't have to happen very many times to justify the cost of the backup genny.

 

[JB4310]

JB,
My experience has not been good. The main learnings are oversize the inverter (the peak rating is meaningless) and be prepared to buy very large batteries and replace then fairly often. Get a really good charger to.
I do plan to use the inverter to run my solar hot water heater pump (40 watts) when needed. It needs power from 11 am to 4 PM. Normally I would not need the generator then. I will also power the small freezer and refrigator.

buying lots of large batteries and replacing them often? I think that's time to get a generator???.. even a cheaper standalone model...

soudnguy

I thought those batteries were designed for so many charges, why would you have to replace them often? I wouldn't think a 1KW inverter would run a refrigerator, but could it run a TV or computer and a few lights. I would expect it to take a few hours to charge batteries, but that could be done during the time the genny would be running the heavier loads during the day, leaving the inverter for the evening hours when, if planed right the only electrical needs would be a few lights and TV/computer.

I guess I'm more thinking apocalyptic power outage, like a an environmental disaster where the power could be out for a month or more. and you really needed to ration electrical consumption.
I do realize 99.999% of power failures are between a few hours and a few days.

JB.

 

[JB4310]

I am not sure where you guys live but here I do not know of a single house that would not lose 20 or more deg overnight in the winter with the temp at 17 deg like it was that night and wind blowing 30 mph. My home is 11 years old, good doors and windows by Pella and Andersen, 2x6 walls, 30" of attic insulation and still will lose temp quickly in those conditions.

As for letting it run while I sleep I have greater things to worry over.

Chris

Chris, I didn't remember who posted about running the gen overnight, and was to lazy to look back. Anyway, I enjoy talking about back up generators and like you said to each his own.

But as far as losing 20 degrees overnight, that would never happen in my house, never even happen in 24 hours at 15-20 degrees out.
Maybe an anomaly but true, and the house was built in 1936.
My thermostat is programmable and at 10 pm it drops to 62 and at 6am it goes up to 68. Maybe twice in the last 5 years has the boiler kicked on at like 5am cause the temp dropped those 6 degrees to 62, but that was with low single digits outside.

For me listening to the generator running all night would be more of an inconvenience than not having electricity at night.
Except for medical equipment or 100 degrees and humid I would definitely not be running a generator in the overnight hours.

Do a search for threads started by 3rrl. He has a house and shop (200amp main panel) off grid whith solar and gen backup.

Thanks,

JB.


Here's a stand alone diesel for comparison to pto.

VOLTMASTER LR130EL 13,000 LOMBARDINI DIESEL GENERATOR - eBay (item 360204789327 end time Feb-02-10 09:16:46 PST)

/