PTO generator

[DarkBlack]

Originally Posted by Rob-D

There is no inversion on the AC side, the Honda gas engine turns the Alternator. The inverter side (DC) is very low amperage. My Honda EU2000i runs 120v/16.7 amps AC but only 96W DC (12V x 8A).
Inverters, even very highly efficient ones still lose a few percent, this with any DC generator driver loses would have lower efficiency than an alternator brushless system. This is one reason why cars went to alternators. You can get 100 amp alternator in a car that is very small. The trick in cars is that they use the fan belt and gearing to turn the alternator very fast, that's why lights dim slightly when the car is idling. Spinning a generator at those speeds would explode the armature. Alternators run three phase, 120 degrees apart. the overlapping phases get rectified by the diodes in a delta 'Y' configuration and the battery sees a relatively smooth voltage. On the Honda EU2000i they use a small rectifier off the alternator for the 96W DC out. (small battery charging)

I'm not sure why you're talking about noise? The EU2000i is about as quiet as you can get in my view.The brushless alternator is quiet, the engine sound is all you get, that would be the same regardless whether it's inverter or direct alternator.

What are diodes in a delta "Y" configuration?
There is the question again rob.

 

[Rob-D]

Originally Posted by Rob-D

There is no inversion on the AC side, the Honda gas engine turns the Alternator. The inverter side (DC) is very low amperage. My Honda EU2000i runs 120v/16.7 amps AC but only 96W DC (12V x 8A).
Inverters, even very highly efficient ones still lose a few percent, this with any DC generator driver loses would have lower efficiency than an alternator brushless system. This is one reason why cars went to alternators. You can get 100 amp alternator in a car that is very small. The trick in cars is that they use the fan belt and gearing to turn the alternator very fast, that's why lights dim slightly when the car is idling. Spinning a generator at those speeds would explode the armature. Alternators run three phase, 120 degrees apart. the overlapping phases get rectified by the diodes in a delta 'Y' configuration and the battery sees a relatively smooth voltage. On the Honda EU2000i they use a small rectifier off the alternator for the 96W DC out. (small battery charging)

I'm not sure why you're talking about noise? The EU2000i is about as quiet as you can get in my view.The brushless alternator is quiet, the engine sound is all you get, that would be the same regardless whether it's inverter or direct alternator.

What are diodes in a delta "Y" configuration?
There is the question again rob.

Ambigous question.
What do you want to know? What they are for? Is that what you're asking?
What type of diodes?
What their function is?
What their amperage is?

Do that Google search yet? Here's a picture to help you out. See the diodes?

 

[DarkBlack]

Ambigous question? :laughing: You wrote it!! I added "what are"!

 

[Rob-D]

Ambigous question? :laughing: You wrote it!! I added "what are"!

No, I wrote "phases get rectified by the diodes in a delta 'Y' configuration". Meaning the diodes associated with the alernator field windings rectify the AC current to form DC.

You wrote:

"What are diodes in a delta "Y" configuration?"

The diodes aren't in a 'Y' configuration the fields are but I think you knew that and just wanted to be petty and a wise guy.

 

[Rob-D]

Ambigous question? :laughing: You wrote it!! I added "what are"!

Out of context.

 

[MessickFarmEqu]

we have the last 2x 20KW commercial units Tiger-Power will make. $3995, list is $5200. These showed up POST storm, we sold out of 20+ PTO gensets before everything hit.. these are a second lot.

 

[npalen]

I could see the slower engine speed being an advantage where the tractor has plenty of HP for the size of generator needed. The obvious advantage would, of course, be less noise but some tractors are actually more efficient at lower RPM.

That's great IF the PTO HP can handle the lack of gear reduction. PTO generators run ~2600 engine speed to 540 gen speed. A PTO HP rating of 25 at 540 rpm from an engine spinning at 2600 rpms has greater torque than the same engine running at 1000 rpms with a PTO of 540. Think of your car trying to pull you up a hill from a dead stop in top gear.

 

[Tcfake613]

Sheesh... Didn't expect such a response!!


Well you folks make a lot of excellent points. One of them being the fact that last year at this time I was plowing my driveway during a power outage. Yep I only have one tractor. Someone mentioned buying TWO gennys. One for the PTO and one gas portable. Which really isn't a bad idea. We own a fifth wheel and I've been in a situation or two where it would've been nice to have one. Actually been in a couple campgrounds where we lost power.

Anyway, we got lucky and only lost power for a short time during the night. No big deal. My brother in law (about two miles away) is still out of power and has a Honda 2000 keeping the fridge cold right now.

Bottom line is I'm tired of putting this off and not having one when I need it. So I will be researching and finding a good deal.... Maybe two good deals.

 

[sdkubota]

I finally got my Rural King 15kw PTO powered generator up and running today. Voltage and hertz very stable while testing. Tractor seemed at ease powering it at 540 rpm. Now I need to get my 50 Amp etnrance box installed and hooked into my main panel using a interlock.

 

[zoltanthegypsy]

Tc, glad to hear you made it through with minimal hassle. That's no excuse for putting off that new generator until the _next_ storm

Sorry for taking your thread off into the weeds. It happens...

Z.

 

[number two]

As long as we are talking generators,I'm considering a portable gas generator for use during outages.My main concern is how much current is needed to start my well pump.I have a 450' well with a 1 1/2HP Goulds pump.It runs fine with a 240V 15 amp circuit breaker.I really don't need to keep everything in the house running all the time,just a little furnace here,or the fridge a little,etc.I just don't want to hurt the well pump.Would be happy to turn everything off just to pump some water.I've been looking at 5500 run/6900 peak or 6500 run/8000 peak units.Would one of these be sufficient?Or simply how many peak watts needed to start my pump?
Yes,I'm asking this on a tractor forum.We rock here!Thank you in advance for your replies.

 

[zzvyb6]

And just one more thing to consider, folks: As of right now, there is no gasoline in the disaster area and the natural gas lines are blowed out.

Here in Michigan the past few days, the residual Sandy winds took down a lot of electric lines (including my district). The one station that is open has diesel only and I'm running my 50kw Winpower off of my diesel F-935 lawnmower (60hz., 126.2V at the moment). U-verse is up so I have TV, Internet and landline phones. I even vacuumed the first floor, laundered the hockey uniforms and the new fridge made some fresh ice cubes. And, it snowed yesterday! No gas, no juice, no heat, no water, no flush. Mamma's NOT happy.

 

[crazyal]

As long as we are talking generators,I'm considering a portable gas generator for use during outages.My main concern is how much current is needed to start my well pump.I have a 450' well with a 1 1/2HP Goulds pump.It runs fine with a 240V 15 amp circuit breaker.I really don't need to keep everything in the house running all the time,just a little furnace here,or the fridge a little,etc.I just don't want to hurt the well pump.Would be happy to turn everything off just to pump some water.I've been looking at 5500 run/6900 peak or 6500 run/8000 peak units.Would one of these be sufficient?Or simply how many peak watts needed to start my pump?
Yes,I'm asking this on a tractor forum.We rock here!Thank you in advance for your replies.

My pump is a 1 1/2hp 10gpm pump down 500' with about another 30 feet up to the house. The static level of the well is between 50' and 100'. I have a 4200 watt generator and when the pump first turns on it's about all the generator can do. I would say a minimum of 5000 watts would be needed IMO. I use mine and never had a problem but I do have a large storage tank so I don't need to run the pump very often.

 

[brandoro]

Someone asked about running the tractor inside with the door closed. This is a photo of my setup, since modified slightly for my current tractor. The exhaust is regular exhaust pipe from a muffler shop. I had them swage the end down to be a slip fit over the tractor exhaust. I have yet to need the generator in the winter so haven't actually run it like this beyond testing it out. The tractor generates a significant amount of heat when it is generating power. Last summer I had been away for a month, got home the night before the power went off for almost three days. I would run the generator in the morning for an hour or so to run the fridge and freezer, run the pump to have a shower and flush the toilet, make coffee then disconnect the generator so I could use the tractor to cut the grass and do other chores. I'd power the house again in the evening for an hour or so. That seemed to be enough to keep everything happy. I only have one tractor, seems like that is still enough. All told during the power outage I don't think I can atribute more than five hours run time to driving the generator so I'm not very worried about wearing out my tractor making electricity.

 

[Rob-D]

As long as we are talking generators,I'm considering a portable gas generator for use during outages.My main concern is how much current is needed to start my well pump.I have a 450' well with a 1 1/2HP Goulds pump.It runs fine with a 240V 15 amp circuit breaker.I really don't need to keep everything in the house running all the time,just a little furnace here,or the fridge a little,etc.I just don't want to hurt the well pump.Would be happy to turn everything off just to pump some water.I've been looking at 5500 run/6900 peak or 6500 run/8000 peak units.Would one of these be sufficient?Or simply how many peak watts needed to start my pump?
Yes,I'm asking this on a tractor forum.We rock here!Thank you in advance for your replies.

Number two,
Figure for your well:

1.5 * 746 * 3 = 3357 minimum watts to start your well pump.

1.5 * 746 = 1119 minimum watts to keep it running

 

[Rob-D]

As long as we are talking generators,I'm considering a portable gas generator for use during outages.My main concern is how much current is needed to start my well pump.I have a 450' well with a 1 1/2HP Goulds pump.It runs fine with a 240V 15 amp circuit breaker.I really don't need to keep everything in the house running all the time,just a little furnace here,or the fridge a little,etc.I just don't want to hurt the well pump.Would be happy to turn everything off just to pump some water.I've been looking at 5500 run/6900 peak or 6500 run/8000 peak units.Would one of these be sufficient?Or simply how many peak watts needed to start my pump?
Yes,I'm asking this on a tractor forum.We rock here!Thank you in advance for your replies.

240 *15 = 3600 watts your well pump is now working with. Just make sure you have enough to start it. Let's say your oil burner motor comes on just as your well pump kicks in. Oil burner motors run about 1/7 HP:

1.5 * 746 * 3 + .142 * 746 = 3462 watts minimum to get everything started. The thing is what happens if while all this is going on your fridge is already running? So those of you thinking of a gen set should assess your total needs first before getting the gen. I recommend getting a P3, they are about 25 bucks and you can plug each appliance into it individually and go through your house to figure your total needs. Once you do that add abuot 25 to 30% extra for your gen power.

On another note I have two gens here, one is a 6.8Kw diesel and the other is a small, low noise Honda EU2000i that runs emergencies like my neighbors house flooding. I got the 6.8K diesel before I put in all the Alternate energy, I never have used it but it is nice to have.

The other thing is that instead of a PTO generator vs. a gas generator I would think about spending the extra money for a diesel generator. Just my preference.

 

[newbury]

<snip> So I will be researching and finding a good deal.... Maybe two good deals.

Remember - Harbor Freight Black Friday Special $88.88 Harbor Freight Black Friday / Cyber Monday Ad Scans, Deals, Previews and Secrets at Slickdeals.net

And just one more thing to consider, folks: As of right now, there is no gasoline in the disaster area and the natural gas lines are blowed out.

Here in Michigan the past few days, the residual Sandy winds took down a lot of electric lines (including my district). The one station that is open has diesel only and I'm running my 50kw Winpower off of my diesel F-935 lawnmower (60hz., 126.2V at the moment). U-verse is up so I have TV, Internet and landline phones. I even vacuumed the first floor, laundered the hockey uniforms and the new fridge made some fresh ice cubes. And, it snowed yesterday! No gas, no juice, no heat, no water, no flush. Mamma's NOT happy.

And that is an important, but often overlooked point. You need to secure your fuel supply for expected duration, plus a safety factor. If you burn a gallon of gas an hour and run 24/7 and it takes 3 days for power to be restored that's 72 gallons, or 15 of the 5 gallon gas cans.

In another generator thread I mention tri-fuel conversion kits which let you burn gasoline, natural gas, or LPG on your existing gas generator. Winco (and others) also make tri-fuel generators. Their 8KW burns about 1.5 gallons/hr on LPG (Winco HPS9000VE Portable Generator - HPS9000VE - 8,000 Watt TriFuel Generator w/ Electric Start B&S Vanguard Engine). I've got two each 250 gallon LPG tanks I try to keep filled, that would be good for about 300 hours.

Where I'm retiring I'm setting up IBC totes for diesel and water.


That's about 300 gallons each.

Right now on the news they are showing the multi hour lines for gas, at gas stations in New Jersey. There's nothing stupider than waiting till the last minute to get gas (unless you don't plan on living that long).

 

[Tcfake613]

You guys think of everything! That's what's so great about this forum. I too am concerned about the load from a well pump. For those of you that have wells, you know that power outages also mean water outages! I will take this into consideration. I'm leaning towards a 10-15kva PTO genny and another small gas genny. I think this gets the best of both worlds then ill have the gas genny for those camping trips.

I'll have to do some load calculations to ensure I'll have the power I need to run some necessities.

Two refers
One freezer
Well pump/softener/UV light
Some lighting
communications equipment rack

I can heat the house if I have to with two propane fireplaces so no load there.

 

[sdkubota]

You guys think of everything! That's what's so great about this forum. I too am concerned about the load from a well pump. For those of you that have wells, you know that power outages also mean water outages! I will take this into consideration. I'm leaning towards a 10-15kva PTO genny and another small gas genny. I think this gets the best of both worlds then ill have the gas genny for those camping trips.

I'll have to do some load calculations to ensure I'll have the power I need to run some necessities.

Two refers
One freezer
Well pump/softener/UV light
Some lighting
communications equipment rack

I can heat the house if I have to with two propane fireplaces so no load there.

A PTO generator requires 2 hp at the pto for every kw...ie: a 15 kw generator requires 30 hp at the pto.

 

[Rob-D]

You guys think of everything! That's what's so great about this forum. I too am concerned about the load from a well pump. For those of you that have wells, you know that power outages also mean water outages! I will take this into consideration. I'm leaning towards a 10-15kva PTO genny and another small gas genny. I think this gets the best of both worlds then ill have the gas genny for those camping trips.

I'll have to do some load calculations to ensure I'll have the power I need to run some necessities.

Two refers
One freezer
Well pump/softener/UV light
Some lighting
communications equipment rack

I can heat the house if I have to with two propane fireplaces so no load there.

Heating is the single biggest energy road block. If you have wood or other source I think it's the best in emergencies. We have wood backup, a Tuikivi Finnish soapstone fire place with a bake oven. The price wasn't bad when I bought it but I'll bet it's a fortune now! Anyway the soapstone gets hot and the fire goes out but the fireplace heats all night. If you can run a hot water element off your heat source you'll be that much better off.
Don't dismiss wood as fuel, especially those of you with acreage. We have enough wood around here to keep us going all winter. A lot of my neighbors have outside wood heaters. They just throw unsplit logs into them. We have to split.
To reduce our cold storage next year I'm building a root cellar, everything I can do that reduces my electric usage I'm exploring. I hope to make a passive fridge or a fridge out of peltier junctions at some point.

sorry for the OT.