PTO Generators: Winco

[fishdoc]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Fishdoc,

Don't know what your motivation for having a generator is, but if you are looking for electricity after a nasty storm like Katrina, don't forget that you will NEED your tractor to clear trees & debris & you can't power your house at the same time.

We get by with a 8500 surge, 5500 sustained gas generator I bought 2 days after the storm. Wish it were bigger, but it is what I could find. We've been on it ever since & we are thankful for what it can do.

Jack )</font>

I was thinking a really long cord so I could do both! /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

[v8dave]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( . . . OK, here's my question .... my water well pump is 240v, 3-phase, so can I mount a 3-phase converter on the pallet, that can be plugged into the PTO generator and hotwired to the pump to get water in an emergency???? )</font>

Why not buy a 3-phase PTO generator? Check the specs, you may find the product you are looking at may be "reconnectable." Which means they can be hooked up to supply either 120/240 1-phase or 120/208 3-phase. Most of the time they are advertised as 3-phase units reconnectable as 1-phase.

 

[eno]

I got this one http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=6970&productId=36914&R=36914 to run with my bx, very nice unit.

 

[slowrev]

"Don't know what your motivation for having a generator is, but if you are looking for electricity after a nasty storm like Katrina, don't forget that you will NEED your tractor to clear trees & debris & you can't power your house at the same time."
//

Sounds like a good reason to get another tractor /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Ben

 

[EastTexFrank]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( <font color="blue"> Don't cha hate it when someone hi-jacks a thread? </font> )</font>

Yea, I'm sorry about that but I did apologise. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

Most of the 3-phase switchable PTO generators that I've found are a lot larger than my 18 PTO hp will comfortably run and a lot more expensive than I can reasonably justify to the CFO for the occasional outage. I guess that I'm just going to have to give up on that idea and make do with a single phase unit. The model that Soundguy and Eno have looks interesting and reasonable. I should be able to get 9 or 10 kW out of that with my B2400.

 

[John_Mc]

What's cheaper &/or easier... buy a 3 phase generator (or a 3 phase converter), or just replace your well pump with a 240 volt single phase unit?

By replacing your well pump, you'd have something that just about any generator could run (at least any with a 240 volt output).

John Mc

 

[vetteman]

I have this same generator and run it with my Kubota 4310 We can run the whole house and our horse barn with no problems just like we had elctric from the power co. And I paid the price that you did.

 

[40_acre_mule]

Fishdoc,

I received my Northstar 13kw pto generator ($1100) from Northern Tool 3 days before Katrina slammed into us.
We were without power for 2 1/2 weeks.
The Northstar worked like a charm. It ran everything in the house, although we had to alternate between the well pump and the air conditioner. Still, we only ran it for six or seven hours a day to conserve fuel (6am-8am, 12-2pm, 6pm-9pm). We didn't know when we would be able to buy fuel again. My Kubota burned right around 1 gallon per hour to run it.
I didn't have time to build a nice setup for the gen, but still, it was easy to disconnect. Mostly, you just disconnect the pto shaft. If I hadn't been so busy patching my roof, my daughter's roof, and several other family/neighbors roofs, it would have been easy to use the tractor for clean-up.
The only other thing I need to do is get a large diesel storage tank for just such occasions. A 100 or 200 gallon tank would have greatly eased my mind concerning fuel availablility during the first few days after the storm. It was a week before we found a gas station where the wait wasn't 5 or 6 hours.
I had a meter pan with a transfer switch installed when we built the house in anticipation of buying a generator. Still, it is relatively easy to create a disconnect circuit (as long as your meter box has a main breaker between the meter and the breakers that service the A/C, house, electric stove, etc.).
I can also see myself using the pto generator to run power tools out in the field away from the house.

 

[SkyPup]

I run that same generator off my Kubota L-3130 and it works great. I keep 60 gallons of diesel tanked up on hand at all times for power outages

 

[cart99]

What are the advantages to purchasing a PTO driven unit as opposed to a stand-alone? It seems to me that by the time you add a PTO shaft and a cart, the PTO units cost about the same as stand-alone.

I guess one of the major advantages to PTO unit is fuel savings, but what about the extra hours on the tractor?

Opinions?

 

[Soundguy]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( It seems to me that by the time you add a PTO shaft and a cart, the PTO units cost about the same as stand-alone )</font>

Show me where you can buy a 13kw standalone genny for 1300$ or less????

That's figuring the genny, the shaft, and a cart or caryall.

I think you might be able to get a 10kw standalone for more than that... So far.. the math doesn't seem to work out..

Soundguy

 

[Soundguy]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( The only other thing I need to do is get a large diesel storage tank for just such occasions. A 100 or 200 gallon tank would have greatly eased my mind concerning fuel availablility )</font>

How about this. instead of the price to set up a tank like that, get a 20$ harbor freight rotary hand pump, and a few dollars worth of fuel hose from the auto store. Now.. head down to the local fuel distribuitor where the big business buy their fuel.. contractors.. etc... Buy a few 55 gallon drums of fuel... keep it on hand... less chance for the fuel to get contaminated in seperate 55 gallon sealed drums. portable even, if you need to move a fuel supply to a temp area.

The rotary pump goes in the 2" bung.

Soundguy

 

[dmccarty]

SoundGuy,

The 55 gallon drums is a real good idea. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif I wish I had thought of that one. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

As usual TBN is timely. The CFO and I have been going over our power generation options again. For the upteenth time. We are being forced to make a decision since the electrician will be coming back to the house to work on our punch list so we want to tell him what kinda of switch/plug to put in for the generator.

I have been looking at our appliances, counting watts, and figured a generator with 10Kish surge watts and 8.5K watts would do nicely. We would still have to manage the load but it should work ok fine.

The problem is WHAT kinda generator. Standalone or PTO. If we go PTO I can get a 20-25K generator and I won't have to manage anything except the tractor throttle. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif And its the cheapest bang for the watt.

The other idea I like alot except for the dollars is to get a Lincoln welder with a generator. But I want a diesel not gas. Cheapest I have seen is around $7,100! /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

If I go with a diesel genset they seem to be $3,000 on up...

GAD, I don't know what to do and I have to make a decision soon....

We want diesel since we have the tractor and truck running on that fuel. If I had to, I could aways get fuel out of the truck tank and with 38 gallons that is a lot for the tractor or a genset. Eventually we want to get a 300-500 gallon fuel tank and just keep the fuel for the truck and tractor as well as emergencies. But that is a long way off in time.

Which gets back to why I like the 55 gallon drums. If we need them I can just hope in the truck and find a fuel company and bring home the diesel when I need it. We live roughly in the center of the state. So if a ice storm or hurricane hits us I can clean up the mess to get out and head in whichever direction is not effected by the storm and get supplies. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif It may take a couple of hours of driving but I'll be able to get what we need.

And that sounds like 55 gallon drums. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Still wish I knew what generator to buy.....

Later,
Dan

 

[Shimon]

This is an interesting thread since I was thinking of a getting a PTO generator (once I get my tractor...hopefully this weekend!).

My only question is reagrding the frquency control of these gensets. I know the frquency of the AC output is controlled by the RPM of the genset. I assume these PTO gensets accept 540RPM. How well are PTO RPMs regulated on the tractor side? I assume you set what ever RPM you need on the tractor to achieve 540 on the PTO but will the tractor maintain that 540 as long as the load is within reason? Also how hard is it to actually set the throttle to get 540 at the PTO or will the PTO be at 540 as long as the engine RPM is above a certain amount? Does the genset input side (I assume it's an "increasing" gear) have some sort of compensator to make up for fluctuations at the PTO end or would you just end up with frequency fluctuations on the AC signal?

Thanks.

 

[Soundguy]

PTO rpm is generally tied directly ( thru a ratio ) to engine rpm.. so no.. you can't have a 540 rpm pto that stays the same with the engine 'above' a certain point.

That said.. My Northern ptogen held 60hz at 120vac +/- 1vac on 10-20 amp motor starting loads with incandescent loads already present. No freq fluctuations. This was while being powere dwith my 53 year old ford 8n. I'm sure my 'new' diesel tractor would be 'better'.

Soundguy

 

[Glenn9643]

How well are PTO RPMs regulated on the tractor side? I assume you set what ever RPM you need on the tractor to achieve 540 on the PTO but will the tractor maintain that 540 as long as the load is within reason?

It's my understanding that you would set the PTO RPM speed using the tractor throttle lever based on the generator's frequency meter. After the tractor engine speed is set the governor should increase the fuel supply to maintain that speed as load is applied to the generator, and reduce the fuel supply as load is reduced to maintain the RPM. If the load exceeds the power available from the tractor the RPM's will drop.
If I'm wrong SoundGuy will correct it.

 

[dmccarty]

I'm looking at generators and I'm confused on how Ye get ALL of the power from the generator to the panel at the house. Many of the generators I see have multiple outlets say with 15A, 20A, 30A and maybe a 50A or 60A. Say the genset can push 10,000 watts. Does that mean the connection to the house would have to be at least 50A and running 240Vs? Otherwise it would take an 80-90A/120V connection to the house.

Am I getting this right?

If the power is going it at 50A/240V does anything else have to be done to on the house side to handle the power?

Later,
Dan

 

[Roger_H]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Show me where you can buy a 13kw standalone genny for 1300$ or less????

That's figuring the genny, the shaft, and a cart or caryall.

I think you might be able to get a 10kw standalone for more than that... So far.. the math doesn't seem to work out..

Soundguy )</font>

That's an excellent point on cost. Is there a good website that can help estimate your power needs based on typical applicances you want to run at a minimum (refridgerator, freezer, A/C, water heater, etc.)

Also, is there a reason to not go with a 3-point hitch option for getting it around vs. a tow-behind on a cart? It seems more sensible with the 3-PH, but then I'm not an expert on ANY of this either.

Clear skies,
Roger

 

[Roger_H]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( How about this. instead of the price to set up a tank like that, get a 20$ harbor freight rotary hand pump, and a few dollars worth of fuel hose from the auto store. Now.. head down to the local fuel distribuitor where the big business buy their fuel.. contractors.. etc... Buy a few 55 gallon drums of fuel... keep it on hand... less chance for the fuel to get contaminated in seperate 55 gallon sealed drums. portable even, if you need to move a fuel supply to a temp area.

The rotary pump goes in the 2" bung.

Soundguy )</font>

This one?

Pump 1

Or this one?

Pump 2

Or this one?

Pump 3

The last one "looks like" a bit higher quality, but it's more expensive. I really like your idea about the 55gal drum. I'm trying to stockpile in gas cans and it's easier just to drum it up I think.

Thanks,
Roger

 

[John_Mc]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I'm looking at generators and I'm confused on how Ye get ALL of the power from the generator to the panel at the house. Many of the generators I see have multiple outlets say with 15A, 20A, 30A and maybe a 50A or 60A. Say the genset can push 10,000 watts. Does that mean the connection to the house would have to be at least 50A and running 240Vs? )</font>

You use the 50A 240V outlet.

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( If the power is going it at 50A/240V does anything else have to be done to on the house side to handle the power?) )</font>

the 240 AC volt outlet actually has two hot "legs" and a neutral (probably also has a forth wire for ground). Each are 120 v AC compared to the neutral wire. Since the two legs are 180 degrees out of phase with each other (when one is at +120v, the other is at -120v), you can get 240V AC when you measure between the two hot legs. You don't have to do anything special at your house end, since in most cases, this is exactly what the utility is feeding you. Typically, half of your circuits in your panel are on one 120v leg, and half on the other. Those appliances that need 240v use both legs (that's why their circuit breakers are double the width of the regular breakers... they need to switch off both legs)

John Mc