PTO Pump driven with Jackshaft
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J_J
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I believe there is something else not right, as the pump should should be capable of developing 2000 psi while rotating, and working against a load . We know the pump is working because it will build up to 1100 psi. If the PTO pump is even turning at 270 rpm, is should be able to develop up to 2000 psi. Something is bypassing, or leaking, and if so, you will not be able to achieve the 2000 psi.
Can you substitute another valve to check flow and pressure?
Can you substitute another valve to check flow and pressure?
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J_J
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You should have given us the complete story about all the things you have going on, so we can better help you.
I was a little curious about the engine, so I researched it.
Wisconsin Gasoline Engines - 4-Cylinder Air-Cooled Gasoline Engine - Model V465D
Seems like that engine will run at 3000 rpm, and produce 65 HP, However, the best torque is at 1800 rpm, and the HP at 1800 rpm is 47.5
Even at 1800 rpm, you have enough HP to run that pump, and we know the belts won't work. Maybe the chain can handle the HP/torque, maybe not.
Do you want to get all the GPM's out of the PTO pump? If so, whether you run the engine at 1800 rpm or 3000 engine rpm, you will need to figure out the ratio for the PTO match up.
If you are pumping fluid, where is the fluid actually going? You say that the relief valve doesn't come on, but you have the cyl at max extend. If the cyl is good and tight, the fluid will try and build up at the PRV for the valve.
Do you know if the solenoid valve is good?
Do you know if the PRV is good?
Looking at the pump data, you have to input 32 HP to the pump to get the 21 GPM's at 2000 psi
If you are only inputting 16 HP, 1000 PSI is all you will get.
I was a little curious about the engine, so I researched it.
Wisconsin Gasoline Engines - 4-Cylinder Air-Cooled Gasoline Engine - Model V465D
Seems like that engine will run at 3000 rpm, and produce 65 HP, However, the best torque is at 1800 rpm, and the HP at 1800 rpm is 47.5
Even at 1800 rpm, you have enough HP to run that pump, and we know the belts won't work. Maybe the chain can handle the HP/torque, maybe not.
Do you want to get all the GPM's out of the PTO pump? If so, whether you run the engine at 1800 rpm or 3000 engine rpm, you will need to figure out the ratio for the PTO match up.
If you are pumping fluid, where is the fluid actually going? You say that the relief valve doesn't come on, but you have the cyl at max extend. If the cyl is good and tight, the fluid will try and build up at the PRV for the valve.
Do you know if the solenoid valve is good?
Do you know if the PRV is good?
Looking at the pump data, you have to input 32 HP to the pump to get the 21 GPM's at 2000 psi
If you are only inputting 16 HP, 1000 PSI is all you will get.
Last edited:
Leejohn
Elite Member
It's like having a finsh mower and try to bush hog with it. If you got the hp it well smoke the belt. That is what is going on here.
J_J
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Just for instance, if you wanted to run the 9.9 cu in pump at 200 rpm, you could pump 8.6 GPM's.
8.6 GPM's will take about 12 HP to develop 2000 psi, and that will only develop if there is a resistance to the force. If the fluid does not end up pushing on that cyl piston, then you will never see the pressure on your gage, or force generated by the cyl.
8.6 GPM's will take about 12 HP to develop 2000 psi, and that will only develop if there is a resistance to the force. If the fluid does not end up pushing on that cyl piston, then you will never see the pressure on your gage, or force generated by the cyl.
OP
N8ghz
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Being that I am getting confused and maybe others are too> Lets simplify this.
Lets say I run pump out to this valve (I have one)...
Notice it has P IN, P OUT, Tank, and not shown on this side but it has a Gauge port.
It is 500 PSI min 2000 Max.
Lets omit any cylinders, directional valves, subplates, manifolds, cartridge valves, filters, orifices, and any hoses except one from Pump to P and T on the relief to Tank. Lets say the hoses are 3/4".
We will plug the remaining P port with a pipe plug. Now we have NO question about anything except the Pump and this relief valve and 2 hoses......no return filter...just put the oil back in the tank...no restriction except the hose ID's, which are irrelevent for the example.
We lower the setting of the valve to 500 PSI and read that on the NEW gauge. Engine is running @ 1200 RPM as read on a Tach. All is well.
We turn the knob until we see 750 PSI....all is well.
We turn the knob until we see 1000 PSI...engine senses the load, but we see 1000PSI.
We turn the knob toward 1300 PSI, belts squeel, pump stops as seen by being able to read the words on the stopped belts.
Case closed.
Belts cannot deliver any more HP and will self-destruct if not shut-down or Relief lowered....and quickly !!!!
Engine is more than happy to destroy the belts and never misses a beat.
Enter the chain or a 3.00 ratio truck rear-end or a Motorcycle belt sprocket drive.
Lets say I run pump out to this valve (I have one)...
Notice it has P IN, P OUT, Tank, and not shown on this side but it has a Gauge port.
It is 500 PSI min 2000 Max.
Lets omit any cylinders, directional valves, subplates, manifolds, cartridge valves, filters, orifices, and any hoses except one from Pump to P and T on the relief to Tank. Lets say the hoses are 3/4".
We will plug the remaining P port with a pipe plug. Now we have NO question about anything except the Pump and this relief valve and 2 hoses......no return filter...just put the oil back in the tank...no restriction except the hose ID's, which are irrelevent for the example.
We lower the setting of the valve to 500 PSI and read that on the NEW gauge. Engine is running @ 1200 RPM as read on a Tach. All is well.
We turn the knob until we see 750 PSI....all is well.
We turn the knob until we see 1000 PSI...engine senses the load, but we see 1000PSI.
We turn the knob toward 1300 PSI, belts squeel, pump stops as seen by being able to read the words on the stopped belts.
Case closed.
Belts cannot deliver any more HP and will self-destruct if not shut-down or Relief lowered....and quickly !!!!
Engine is more than happy to destroy the belts and never misses a beat.
Enter the chain or a 3.00 ratio truck rear-end or a Motorcycle belt sprocket drive.
J_J
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You must have some restriction to the flow to develop any pressure.
Valve shown is nothing but a relief valve. The volume of fluid will flow through this valve unless you have a cyl or motor to develop the pressure. If the cyl causes the pressure to build up to the relief setting, the relief valve will relieve the fluid to tank.
Valve shown is nothing but a relief valve. The volume of fluid will flow through this valve unless you have a cyl or motor to develop the pressure. If the cyl causes the pressure to build up to the relief setting, the relief valve will relieve the fluid to tank.
OP
N8ghz
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I would think that the pipe-plug in the P port that would normally go on to a directional valve and motor or cylinder, would be 'some restriction' being that it IS a plug with no hole in it? It's as much restriction as you could get.....blocked.
I give-up.....will report how a chain-drive works when I get it converted to chain.
I feel like I'm on a merry-go-round.
glastron23
Silver Member
N8ghz.. you are on the right path, the v belts just will not hold the HP required to turn the pump at max PSI , a chain drive will fix the problem or you can increase the belt sizing to handle the HP requirement, this will not be cheap to do. here is a chart that could help..Jim http://www.friesen.com/electric/FHPFractionalHorsepowerVBelts.pdf
