PTO Pump driven with Jackshaft

[N8ghz]

Thanks for that chart, it agrees with my study of a different mfg's chart.
(4) 3v's can't do the job.

I have charts for chain, too now, and it looks like I'll be good to 30hp.
I can probably live with that.

The problem with 5v or 8v is achieving the right ratio with the shaft sizes I am dealing with. This is also a problem with chain.

Adding a full compliment (up to 10), of 3v's is not cheap either. That would only yeild 28.8-~30 HP.....similar to the #80 chain.

This engine has a 2" dia. output shaft. That limits the selection of the small pulley due to it needing a 2" bore. This 2" shaft requirement causes the sprocket/sheave, in the higher HP stuff, to become larger. The bigger the driver ....the bigger the driven needs to be to get the ratio. The smallest #80 I could locate is 13 teeth, and A 36 tooth or larger #80 or #100 or whatever, is not cheap although I did find one in #80 with 38 teeth and the 1-3/8" bore that will fit the 1-3/8" PTO shaft.

A 10 groove 3v in 10.6" is also hard to find cheap.

If it wasn't for the bulk of mounting and modifying one to be a single-axle unit-right-hand drive type-of-thing, I'd use a 9" Ford rear-diff in 3.00:1, as I know that ring/pinion exists and is common.

The only reason I keep trying to clarify what is going on in this thread, is for the next guy who may be contemplating such a drive system.

Hope this helps?


PS....another angle I have looked into:

a 4.5" cylinder @ 1600psi has more force than a 4" @ 2000psi
and a 5" @1400psi beats both of those by 1 ton.

Yes they would cycle slower.....about 1 second for the 4.5 and about 2 seconds for the 5"

Hmmmmm?

A smaller GPM PTO pump would help too on the HP requirements at the sacrifice of speed on the splitter cylinder only.

I want 2000psi for the hydraulic saw though.
Maybe I should add a 8gpm @2000psi pump just for the saw,feed-roller/hold-down,etc. and keep the 21gpm just for the splitter cylinder?
I have run the saw off of tractor hydraulics which is 6gpm@1500psi.
The saw can tolerate 8gpm@2000psi, which would be faster & more powerful.

Hmmmmmm?

 

[J_J]

Being that I am getting confused and maybe others are too> Lets simplify this.

Lets say I run pump out to this valve (I have one)...

Notice it has P IN, P OUT, Tank, and not shown on this side but it has a Gauge port.

It is 500 PSI min 2000 Max.

Lets omit any cylinders, directional valves, subplates, manifolds, cartridge valves, filters, orifices, and any hoses except one from Pump to P and T on the relief to Tank. Lets say the hoses are 3/4".

We will plug the remaining P port with a pipe plug. Now we have NO question about anything except the Pump and this relief valve and 2 hoses......no return filter...just put the oil back in the tank...no restriction except the hose ID's, which are irrelevent for the example.

We lower the setting of the valve to 500 PSI and read that on the NEW gauge. Engine is running @ 1200 RPM as read on a Tach. All is well.

We turn the knob until we see 750 PSI....all is well.
We turn the knob until we see 1000 PSI...engine senses the load, but we see 1000PSI.

We turn the knob toward 1300 PSI, belts squeel, pump stops as seen by being able to read the words on the stopped belts.

Case closed.

Belts cannot deliver any more HP and will self-destruct if not shut-down or Relief lowered....and quickly !!!!
Engine is more than happy to destroy the belts and never misses a beat.

Enter the chain or a 3.00 ratio truck rear-end or a Motorcycle belt sprocket drive.

Have you actually done this?

I am curious if the relief orifice will pass the volume of fluid produced by the pump. It will surely heat up quickly.

 

[N8ghz]

No I have not done this and don't intend to. I have the same thing with the aforementioned parts.

Have you tried to run a pump this large, driving it with belts?

 

[J_J]

Well, actually yes. I have a Case trencher with a similar Wisconsin engine, and it drives several pumps with a belt, although a special belt. It also drives the chain drive,for the trencher and turns a hyd pump for the BH.

 

[N8ghz]

Now you tell me. If I followed all of your other suggestions I'd have changed everthing except the drive method.... it's no wonder you have 8761 posts, beating around the bush like that.


The special belt must be a secret while taking me thru hydraulics 101?

 

[77bronco]

Have you considered using a gear reducing box instead of the belts and chains?

 

[N8ghz]

Yes, see the post about using a 9" Ford rear-end with a 3.00 R&P.

Of course I'd have to dead-head one axle, eliminate both axle tubes, adapt the working axle to the 1-3/8" 6-spline shaft, and couple the pinion to the Wisconsin's 2" shaft....via a coupling or a u-joint affair.

Pretty bulky of a unit too, but it WOULD convey the HP.
There are probably other rear-ends that are physically smaller with ratios I could use, but most compact cars now-days are front-wheel drive.


I have seen post-hole augers made out of car rear-ends, so it could be done.
I do have a lathe and a mill and can weld....but?

Gear reductions rated at this kind of HP in 3:1 are not known to me.....like from Boston,etc.

Thanks for input though.

 

[J_J]

There should be no confusion here concerning hyd. As you can see, this is not your usual V belt. I know they make wide belts for certain equipment. I would not know where to get another one or the pulleys for it.

No tricks, just plain facts.

 

[glastron23]

N8 are you building a fire wood processor????

 

[N8ghz]

glastron, Yes that is what I am working on building. It is not as large as yours though, but will have most of the same parts, only smaller scale.

I looked at yours and read what I could about your specs,etc. I especially like the way you use an air-cyl to displace chain oil as the saw moves up/down. I do not need that, as I am using a Fairmont saw, but I liked the thinking you did in coming-up with the idea.

If you would like to privately talk about it, feel free to PM me thru here.
I did post in a firewood processor thread a month or so ago about some of my ideas, but that thread seems to have died with my post.

Since then, alot of those ideas have changed or been mocked-up in some fashion.
I have collected a ton of parts, and am gradually building a section at a time.

This engine deal, is a separate wheeled buggy with the engine, gas tank, pump, hyd. tank, filters, and hoses with Qc's to connect to the splitting machine which will be a separate assembly.

I got side-tracked on the engine cart, due to needing to move cylinders,etc to watch the geometry of things and my tractors are 3 miles away, So I needed to begin working on this pump drive,etc. here at my shop to move things.....it needed done anyhow, as the tractors are too small for the speed I want.....one of them would have been fine for test movements though.