3-Point Hitch PTO Seal leaking

[Bronco82]

So... I had a shorter PTO shaft with my rotary mower, so I purchased a PTO extension from the local TSC. Did my back field a few times with no concern at all, worked great.

Come snowfall, I hooked up the blower, keeping the PTO extension on. Bad idea. With the longer shaft, raising the blower up, ended up pushing the extension into the seal and destroying it. Got it back into the garage, took the blower off, and put a new seal in. I must say it went in fairly easy. Filled it up with fluid and tried again. Worked great for about 10 minutes, at which point I noticed fluid on the driveway. Immediately yanked the PTO shaft off, pushed the seal back on, as it seemed to almost walk itself off, kept the PTO shaft off, and just used the loader for snow removal. Ten minutes later, noticed more fluid, again, pushed the seal back in, it held for ten minutes or so, and then leaked again.

Attempted to put some RTV silicone on the seal to get it to hold in place better, but same results.

Attempted to put some red Loctite on it, but wasn't thinking and put it on both, the outer edge and inner edge, completely forgetting that the inner edge has the shaft spinning through it, so bent that seal taking it off before I even tried to see if it would have held.

Tractor is a B2650, confirmed it's the same part number from the destroyed seal and the replacement seals I have purchased, and we keep getting more snow here.

Please help. New seal versus destroyed seal.

 

[Dman1981]

Look at your housing make sure you did not push it open or crack it with when you ruined seal

 

[Bronco82]

It APPEARS to be alright.

 

[Dman1981]

The only other thing I have done is
Find an aftermarket seal if possible sometimes they are a tighter fit
Or go back to kubota and see what's up. if you use any type of sealant area must super clean and must sit 24 hours for complete
Also check and see how much in and out play is on shaft should be near zero

 

[Bronco82]

There is no play in and out, and only about 1/32 of an inch up and down, but really gotta try and move it up and down, just to say that there is some play there. Nothing side to side either.

It is looking like I will attempt the red Loctite after thoroughly cleaning the contact edge, and let it sit 24 hours prior to filling it back up to use. We keep getting dumped on here with snow.

 

[Dman1981]

Don't miss the white stuff
Good luck

 

[rScotty]

There is no play in and out, and only about 1/32 of an inch up and down, but really gotta try and move it up and down, just to say that there is some play there. Nothing side to side either.

It is looking like I will attempt the red Loctite after thoroughly cleaning the contact edge, and let it sit 24 hours prior to filling it back up to use. We keep getting dumped on here with snow.

Loctite just doesn't have much gap-filling properties. Are there any marine shops near you?
Boats are always dealing with shafts that need thelp holding seals in place.

I'd go with a marine polyurethane sealant like 3M 4200 Fast Cure polyurethane - usually in the big caulking size tube. It is - non-hardening and non-permanent. Very, very sticky and gap fills well. Resistant to just about everything, but you can remove it if need be. 3M 5200 is more permanent...you would have to grind or scrape it out. Both are expensive....$35/tube and you only need a dab. amazon has it. Some hardware stores too.

As an alternative, I would look at Devcon or similar gray (not clear) two-part epoxy... but would prefer the one part polyurethane.
Be sure to keep it away from the bearing.
Luck,
rScotty

 

[etpm]

There is no play in and out, and only about 1/32 of an inch up and down, but really gotta try and move it up and down, just to say that there is some play there. Nothing side to side either.

It is looking like I will attempt the red Loctite after thoroughly cleaning the contact edge, and let it sit 24 hours prior to filling it back up to use. We keep getting dumped on here with snow.

Red Loctite is the wrong stuff to use for cylindrical fits. There is a green Loctite for this purpose. 609, 603, 638, and 648 are some numbers to look for. Please look online for the stuff best suited for your application. I think 638 might be best for you. It will fill a .25mm (.010") gap. Link: LOCTITE® 638
Just use the red stuff for threads, as that is what it is made for.
Eric

 

[Bronco82]

I have looked at the marine polyurethane, but I believe most things said it adheres well to wood, gelcoat and fiberglass.

As for the green Loctite in the 600 series, I believe that stuff is much more applicable in this case, and a friend happens to have a bottle I can have as none of the local stores carry it.

Now, a coworker who was previously a mechanic mentioned taking a punch and sporadically making little indents on the side of the cover, where the seal seals. This would be to cause it to have some teeth, so to speak. Said it's what he did previously for dirt bike bearings that used to come out when there was too much of a gap.

Thoughts?

Appreciate the assistance though folks. Looking forward to being up and running again to move snow.

 

[LouNY]

The small indents will actually raise the surface surrounding the prick mark, it is much like the process of knurling to reduce diameters of bored holes.

 

[Bronco82]

Correct on raising the surface around the prick mark, but would that not act as a little bit of a bite, which hopefully will alleviate the seal walking itself off?

Unfortunately I am coming to the realization that with the extender grinding into the seal, and the seal coming off, it is possible that no OEM seal with suffice as the cover may be slightly wider now, hence my seal coming off so easy.

But, if I can get the current seal to fit on the current cover, I can at least get the driveway done, and buy myself some time to find a new PTO cover, if one can get just the cover, and a new seal, and then replace the cover, with yet another new seal of course.

 

[LouNY]

One of the old standbys for securing things was yellow death 3M trim adhesive.

If the seal is going in loosely and not staying, knurling with a prick punch then a coat of this on the outer edge of the seal may work quite well for a while.

 

[rScotty]

There is no play in and out, and only about 1/32 of an inch up and down, but really gotta try and move it up and down, just to say that there is some play there. Nothing side to side either.

It is looking like I will attempt the red Loctite after thoroughly cleaning the contact edge, and let it sit 24 hours prior to filling it back up to use. We keep getting dumped on here with snow.

I woke up thinking about that PTO this morning. If you are talking about the PTO output shaft being able to move 1/32 inch up and down, that sounds to me like a damaged bearing or bearing support. If the bearing is good, there shouldn't be any up and down play in the shaft. That motion would cause the seal to "walk".

If the bearing or bearing support is the problem, no seal will ever last. You may want to take a second look at the bearing.
rScotty

 

[Bronco82]

That makes complete sense. I believe the bearing support would be the outer cover based on the parts diagram from Messicks.

SO, going to try to "knurling" with a punch on the outside lip, some appropriate Loctite on the seal, let it cure, and then fill with fluid. Cross my fingers, say a prayer, and attempt the blower. Band-aid repair, I can admit it.

Going ahead, I believe the proper course of action will be new cover (Fig. No. C425XX), new seal (#070) and new bearing (#060).

 

[rScotty]

That makes complete sense. I believe the bearing support would be the outer cover based on the parts diagram from Messicks.

SO, going to try to "knurling" with a punch on the outside lip, some appropriate Loctite on the seal, let it cure, and then fill with fluid. Cross my fingers, say a prayer, and attempt the blower. Band-aid repair, I can admit it.

Going ahead, I believe the proper course of action will be new cover (Fig. No. C425XX), new seal (#070) and new bearing (#060).
View attachment 847027

I'm afraid we are both right - It's more than just a seal problem.
I'd still go with a two-part filled (not transparent) epoxy.....like JB Weld or Devcon or 3M's 5200. All at the hardware store. Or whatever is popular at your local airport or marina. The thicker viscosity of the 2 part epoxy with filler will keep it in place while it cures, I'm afraid the loctite is not viscous enough without filler...even the green. The Loctite might work if the seal cover was out and horizontal. Epoxy is stronger in thin gaps than Loctite is, and you are going to either scrap that case or sleeve it anyway.

BTW, there are thin metal sleeves made for that purpose. I've never used one myself.

What I am really tickled to see is that that outer cover is able to be removed and replaced. And looks straightforward. I was afraid that might be a one-piece rear casting and only accessible from inside.
Luck,
rScotty

 

[2manyrocks]

Is the housing actually bent in the area circled in yellow?

Although a sleeve might work to compensate for uniform wear, I doubt it would compensate for the housing being bent if that is what has happened.

 

[Bronco82]

I am very happy to see that the cover can be replaced as well. Otherwise it would have been much more costly than it is.

And no, the cover is not bent there, but the outter ring isn't perfectly round, with two sections straight and not round.

 

[Bronco82]

And the bearing, cover, and seal have been ordered.

Read somewhere someone recommended using Permatex Anaerobic Flange Sealant for the PTO cover as well. That make sense?

 

[Dman1981]

3m weather stripping
Adhesive sets up nice and hard also

 

[CliffordK]

Is this a problem with Kubotas?

Mom got a Kubota BX2380. It sprung a leak within the first 3 months or so of ownership. Mom got it repaired under warranty, but it is a bit worrisome.

As far as the OP's tractor, perhaps you could machine an aluminum plate to hold the seal in place, and even give it a little protection.