Pucker factor alert

rbarker · Jul 31, 2004

While preparing for maintenance on my 60" mowing deck I needed to transport the deck from the paved driveway (where it is easier to remove the deck) to the rear of the house where the workshop and air tools are. I have a loader and some chain, so no problem, right? I figured go slow and watch the tilt meter and no worries!

Well at 7 or 8 degrees on the tilt meter the tractor started to roll to the right. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gifI quickly dropped the loader down until the weight of the deck was mostly on the ground and stopped forward motion. This stopped the roll but left me kind of stuck so I decided to back up and drag the deck until I reached flatter ground. I couldn't even back up because the left rear wheel was not quite touching the ground. I had to use 4WD to move back. I had the loader up at about 2 or 3 feet at this point. Once I reached flat ground I picked the deck back up and took another route which was flatter with no problem. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

I have attached some pictures to help illustrate the situation. In the picture you will note that there was no weight on the 3PH. Do you think this would have helped?

Here is an overall picture....

rbarker · Jul 31, 2004

Here is the set up from the front...

rbarker · Jul 31, 2004

Here is the area that I ran into trouble. You can see the tire tracks to the right of the picnic table where I was trying to traverse. As you can see, it's not very steep.

rbarker · Jul 31, 2004

The first one didn't post for some reason so here it is...

JWE · Jul 31, 2004

Yep... that is 250 pounds that you a hauling with a high center of gravity. Rear ballast would help stabilize the tractor but the height and weight are the biggest factors.

John

at_obuk · Jul 31, 2004

Are your tires filled? Today I transversed a 17 degree slop with the FEL filled with wet mulch and wet dirt carrying at about 2 - 3 feet high with my BX23, also had the BH on. No problems.
Was the mower deck swinging?

Eric P.

beenthere · Jul 31, 2004

Alert? or "education" ?
Looks to be no ballast on the 3pt? Why not? /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
I try to put an equal amount of weight on the rear that I am picking up in FEL, especially if there is slope to traverse and carrying the load that high, relative to the size of the tractor. I almost always do loader work in 4wd for better traction, to save on the grass. You are learning too. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Certain things about gravity that we cannot deny. Play safe, IMO.

Henro · Jul 31, 2004

As beenthere said, it was probably a lack of ballast on the rear that resulted in the pucker...

What happens is first the rear starts to lift and when this happens the tractor pivots on the front axle mid point, until the end stop is reached. At that point you either keep going over, or you stop. Yes this is experience speaking and I have stopped at that point, with my heart in my mouth... /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif Not a good feeling... /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

What you want to do is always have enough weight on the back to keep the rear wheels on the ground. Then you stay a four-wheeler instead of three wheeler...and your heart stays in your chest where it belongs... /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

RoyJackson · Jul 31, 2004

I'd also consider the way you've got the mower rigged. That hookup requires you lifting the mower quite high...at least the width or length on the mower.
If you push the mower in the bucket as far as it will fit, you can rig your chain to the end (of the mower) furtherest out. Get the chain as taut as you can. If you're concerned about the chain abrading the paint, use a few rags or a section of fire hose...anything you've got handy.
That will allow you to lift the mower horizontally so you can keep your load low.

As others have said, rear ballast is essential. But if that ballast isn't available, think of the best methof to keep your load low. The ballast helps...the brain working helps more.

nharrold · Jul 31, 2004

Why pick the mower deck off the ground??? That's kinda like asking for trouble. When I need to move mine, I just chain it to the bucket, lift one set of wheels 6" or so off the ground, and drag it in reverse to wherever it needs to go. No risk of tipping over, that way.

rbarker · Aug 1, 2004

( Alert? or "education" ?)

Well, I posted this so that everyone could benefit from my close call.

(
Looks to be no ballast on the 3pt? Why not? /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif)

That's a pretty good question. I thought about ballast but I guess not really hard enough because I came to the conclusion that it wouldn't help keep the tractor from tipping on a slope since it would be applied evenly on both back wheels. In my mind I thought that the added weight above the axle line could even exacerbate the problem. Henro gave a pretty good explanation of how it works in a later post.

I guess I was the victim of "overthinking". Next time I'll just add ballast and not try to reason out whether I need it or not!

( Certain things about gravity that we cannot deny. Play safe, IMO. )

I have a great quote about gravity but I'm afraid it would be censored here! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

rbarker · Aug 1, 2004

( Are your tires filled? Today I transversed a 17 degree slop with the FEL filled with wet mulch and wet dirt carrying at about 2 - 3 feet high with my BX23, also had the BH on. No problems.
Was the mower deck swinging?

Eric P. )

Nope, and nope! I was careful not to got fast enough for the deck to swing. I think if I had a BH on I might have been okay because of the extra weight.

rbarker · Aug 1, 2004

( If you push the mower in the bucket as far as it will fit, you can rig your chain to the end (of the mower) furtherest out. Get the chain as taut as you can. )

Great suggestion, wish I'd thought of it!

( The ballast helps...the brain working helps more. )

I guess I had that coming... /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

at_obuk · Aug 1, 2004

I think we owe you a bit of thanks for this post.
It makes us all think for a bit. Maybe next time someone else will
think a little bit more when crossing that slope. 60 seconds of making it safer or at least thinking about it to see if you are approaching the task safely is better that a week or more in the hospital or worse. !!!!!!!!!

Thanks again,

Eric P.

jpr62902 · Aug 1, 2004

Robert,

I wouldn't feel so bad if I were you. I almost tipped over my BX22 with the BH on it, and by merely turning on to the edge of a driveway that was only an inch and a half higher than grade. I was carrying an 8' pine tree in the same manner you were moving your deck. That's why I'm investing in bucket forks real soon.

Oh my gosh! I just had a coupla flashbacks! (Hence the edit.) My dad was a weekend farmer and he would haul all of us out there (we lived in the suburbs) to work\play. We had a mini bike with a sidecar on it to haul tools\stuff around. Well, since the sidecar was on the right, it didn't steer too well to the right. I was riding it down a hill and had to turn right to go over a bridge. I went over the bridge alright -- as in over the side. Did a Peter Pan head first into a mighty prickly thorn bush 4' below and bent the snot out of the front wheel fork. Dad was not happy.

Another time I was driving our big ole backhoe out of a gully and about tipped that thing over then too. Hard to believe my Dad still let me run the bulldozer after these monumental lapses in my judgment.

These things can happen to anyone and fast! That's why your post is so valuable to all of us. It keeps these kinds of near misses fresh in our memories so that we can avoid them later (hopefully). Thanks again !

MikePA · Aug 1, 2004

This is a great example of a thread that belongs either in the General Operating forum or the General Safety forum since it's not Kubota specific. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

dbelisle · Aug 1, 2004

I had a good one the other day . I removed the FEL and Backhoe and for a change did it in that order.

When I went to move the tractor around to take the hoe off it didn't want to steer. The front end was so light it would pull the front wheels off the ground when I moved.

The manual says don't operate a BH without the front FEL.
I sure wouldn't want to.

Sometimes experience is a great teacher and really makes you think about counter weight for the front or back.

I am glad all went well for you, and all we both got was a education.

Dave in NH

DannyD · Aug 1, 2004

I usually just turn the 2 wheels opposite the front guide wheel back to normal and drag it to where I want it.....manual labor /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif.

Being one that is not into this sort of thing, your bucket idea is cool, and if I had to move the MMM very far, I would have another reason to get a welder, buy some hooks, learn to weld, put on the hooks, buy some chain..............thanks for the lesson in how to not work so hard, and have a ball doing it. Funny how the dag gummed simplest things elude us. Also to help in clearance, I usually will raise the front wheels some with the FEL when taking the MMM off.......duh! /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

RoyJackson · Aug 1, 2004

"I guess I had that coming... "

Please don't take offense...that was a generalized comment for the forum, not directed toward you or anyone else...

PineRidge · Aug 1, 2004

Bob whenever I use the FEL to lift any load I only lift as far a necessary to clear the ground. I also keep one hand on the joystick when in forward or reverse motion. If I feel the tractor is getting unstable I quickly hit the float position lowering the load immediately. It may be a bit bumpy but it keeps the tires on the ground instead of pointed at the sky. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif