Pulling the Pants down on the CK25

shoppintractors · Sep 8, 2004

And as for the 52" first choice tiller being side shift, I've never seen one of those, never found one in a web search either, I suspect it is not a side shift, especially since the origninal poster didn't comment (but maybe it is a side shift, I'll admit when I am wrong, and have in the past and will be in the future). 

In another thread the gentleman stated it was a side shift tiller. He also has it in his profile it is a side shift tiller. CCI has these side shift style tillers listed on their website.

have they sent you a free hat yet? 
Nope. Nada. Nothing.

 and dislike one model for many LEGITIMATE reasons?

In your mind Bob. I think we should stop discussing it until you get your butt in the seat of these tractors. Then we can discuss it more knowledgeably. Until then, the more you try to defend your position the more you damage your credilbility.

Getut, I apologize for dragging you into this.

Don

getut · Sep 8, 2004

NP Don. I enjoy a good debate.

You are right about Tim the Toolman Taylor though... I would be perfectly happy seeing a CUT get light on one side when throttling up.

Too much power only ever hurt a few people.

Getut

Bob_Skurka · Sep 8, 2004

In your mind Bob. I think we should stop discussing it until you get your butt in the seat of these tractors. Then we can discuss it knowledgeably. Until then the more you try to defend your position the more you damage your credilbility.


Fair enough Don. I guess that I can't discuss the manuverability of a machine 10'+ long machine in tight places like the woods as it compares to a machine that is over 10" narrower and nearly 1.4' shorter (both as measured without FELs) unless I sit on both of them because that would damage my credibility???

Get real Don.

As far as yoyos(?) side shift tiller on his CK25, I do stand corrected on that.

However, the tiller, which is properly sized for the pto hp based on many tiller manufacturer's recommendations still does not cover the width of his rear tracks. Personally, I prefer a tractor that has AMPLE power to run an implement that is at least as wide as the rear track, and run it will full power and not bog it down regardless of the soil conditions it is used in. But that is just my opinion. But I would also make that same comment about ANY brand of tractor with that PTO hp.

And the 19.5 / 20 PTO hp offered by the CK25 is just perfect for running a 48" rotary cutter, another implement that is narrower than the rear track of the machine. I suppose, someone could run a light duty 60" rotary cutter in light/moderate conditions but certainly would be pushing the engine with a heavy duty cutter under heavy load. And that SHOULD be said about ANY brand of tractor with about 20 PTO hp. We can all put big implements on our tractors but it does not mean that the available PTO hp is optimized for those big implements. Personally, I think a 48" bush hog is better suited to be pulled by a 19pto hp small frame machine than a 20pto hp larger machine that can't mow up to the edge of the fence line because the track is wider than the implement.

Either size machine (19pto hp small frame/20 pto mid frame) will easily power a 60" rear mount snow blower, but one machine will turn a lot tighter when clearing out the parking area or negotiate clearing the walkways so the smaller, nearly equal power machine will accomplish the job faster.

I want a tractor that will easily power H.D. implements that are large enough to cover the width of the tractor, without bogging down the engine when I hit the heavy stuff. I think it is reasonable, without hurting my credibility, to discuss these and many other issues, despite the fact that I have not used a CK25. I think it is reasonable to say that Kioti missed the mark with the CK25 and there would have been a nice market for a 25hp engine built onto a CK20 frame.

shoppintractors · Sep 8, 2004

The CK25 has it's place. The CK30 has it's place. You feel the CK25 does not fit YOUR needs......and that's OK. Other people feel it DOES fit their needs. I think we need to respect their purchasing decision.

 However, the tiller, which is properly sized for the pto hp based on many tiller manufacturer's recommendations still does not cover the width of his rear tracks. 

However, However, However. The purchaser of the tiller seems well satisfied with his decision. It covers the tracks in his situation. So what is more important than that????

You can theorize all you want. HOWEVER, I will always defer to actual owner experience. I was not part of the engineering and design team for the CK25 so, until I listen and hear more about the CK25......I will not buy into your naysayer pre-determined judgement.

I think it is reasonable to say that Kioti missed the mark with the CK25

I think getut said it best....... "No to handle the CK25 specifically.
I also feel this is a solid tractor and that it has its place". Amen.

Don

Bob_Skurka · Sep 8, 2004

You can theorize all you want 

Thanks, but I don't need your permission. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif But I do respect other people's opinons and those who do own the CK25, it does not mean that the tractor will turn on a dime, nor does it mean it has enough PTO hp to handle implements large enough to cover its rear track based on implement manufacturer's recommendations. Call it theory, call it prudent, call it whatever you want.

 The purchaser of the tiller seems well satisfied with his decision. 

A lot of people have posted about how they use the wrong size tillers with their tractors and they all seem satisfied too. Doesn't make it the right tool for the job. Just means they figure out how to settle.

And just to put GETUT's words into the proper perspective, here is what he actually had to say in its complete form (no editorial from me): No to handle the CK25 specifically. I also feel this is a solid tractor and that it has its place. But in the same token, I feel this is the weakest (no pun intended) tractor in the CK lineup. How could I NOT feel that the CK25 is underpowered when I even feel that the CK30 is slightly underpowered? 

Did you notice that weakest link part? That is essentially the same thing I have been saying too. And I agree, it does have its place, but as the weakest link I think its place is right along side the Edsel.

shoppintractors · Sep 8, 2004

Getut also admits he is a self proclaimed power junkie. (sorry to drag you in again.)

Ok, Bob your right, you endlessly try to prove yourself right.

I just don't agree with YOU! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Don

PS: Go outside the box, get some seat time in on a CK25 then we can talk. Until then "Happy Trails" to you.

MessickFarmEqu · Sep 8, 2004

I think Bobs point is that the CK25 exists to fill a gap in the Kioti product line and not because Kioti engineered that tractor to work as effectivly as possible. Its defentialy an after thought and I am sure he is right.... otherwise they would jump from 20 to 30 HP and leave the middle wide open. An easy way to fill that gap is to just drop a different engine in the CK30 and boom... new product. Every company is building multiple models on the same frames. I think its pretty stupid as your best performing and best value machine seems to always be the largest of the options. Kioti followed suit and the result is the seemingly anemic CK25.

MessickFarmEqu · Sep 8, 2004

BTW... before the traditional "Your a dealer so be quiet" comments popup I woud venture to say the same situation existed with the New Holland TC18 which was just ax'ed this year.

DAP · Sep 8, 2004

As the originator of this thread, I will take a moment and ask all interested parties to go back and read the first post - by me - after having spend about 30 minutes testing each of the new CK class machines (20/25/30).

If my opinion and experience with the machines count for anything - it IS CLEAR TO ME as well as the dealer I was at, that the CK25 was an economical way for Kioti to fill in the product line gap between the CK20 and the CK30, with the hopes that consumers who wanted something a lil more than the CK20 and needed to avoid the sticker price of a CK30 might find satisfaction (with the CK25).

Will the CK25 out perform the CK20? Easily. Will it out maneuver the CK20. Never. If the latter is key, the CK20 should suffice.

While I understand perfectly the design and marketing motivations for Kioti's notion for the CK25, I'm not a fan of this type of product line implementation. I'd MUCH rather see an intermediate frame size to go with the 25HP power plant.

It would be fascinating to know if Kioti actually did any feasibility and marketing studies regarding Return On Investment with the approach they took. In other words, what degree of confidence, IF ANY, did Kioti have that a NEW CK25 with an intermediate sized and unique frame would NOT SELL enough to justify the startup costs of production for it. Did they even examine this? Or did they just say "Hey, I've got a spec for a 25hp diesel, and we could just slap it on the CK30 frame, reprice the unit and fill in the casm, round out the CK line."

So, for those who probably would like something larger than a CK20 frame and don't wanna spend 1500 more for the CK30, the CK25 will find a home. Don't know how many homes, but time will tell.

Oh, and regarding PTO, remember, for whatever its worth, that the CK25 and CK30 both have dual speed PTOs (540 and 1000 rpms) - standard equipment.

Please re-read thread ONE.

/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

getut · Sep 8, 2004

I think the concept of re-using components or assemblies is sound... I just think they chose the wrong frame for the CK25. I think the CK25 should share the frame with the CK20 instead of the CK30.

What little bit of indecision I had when trying to decide on the CK20 would have never been an issue if the CK25 existed in that form.

Getut