Pulling the Pants down on the CK25

[sodamo]

WOW, after all this debate, I sure hope I don't have to revisit my decision on the CK30 /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
I had already decided the CK20 was probably less than I think I needed for my situation.
I'd be really hesitant to decide on the CK25 and then post that decision here and have to defend it. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
Whichever tractor I end up with will be my very first, so I have nothing worthwhile to compare it with. Unless I hit the lottery, it will also be my last tractor, so I'd better be happy with it.
I never would have thought a year ago, this would have been such a mind boggling decision.
Thankfully, as I read, I learn, so I thank you all /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

 

[To20Chris]

And I understand the logic of the CK25 perfectly. I would have been quite interested in a bigger tractor, not necessarily a more powerful one, but cost is an important issue. A CK25 would have enabled me to get a larger frame, and not pony up all the way to a CK30.

If they had developed an intermediate frame size, then that would have cost more R&D money, and they'd need to recoup that. So a CK25 would have to cost more. Beyond that, you never know if development resources are limited (but they usually are), so it may have taken longer to get to market. Piggy-backing the CK25 on the CK30 development program allows them to get a broader offering without a big additional investment. If your running an FEL, BH, and BB, it's all the power you need.

All in all, I still think I'd buy an LK3054XS! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[KiotiJohn]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( John, the reality is that I offered an opposing opinion to yours on one machine, while complimenting several other Kioti models on a consistent basis, and you can't seem to tolerate any opinion about any Kioti that is not 110% complimentary of the brand. )</font>No Bob, what I can't stand is the way you continue to voice your opinion, which is a vile one, when you have NEVER even used a CK25. You base most of your posts, other than ones dealing with your own equipment, on specs alone. Specs just don't tell the story as you think they do, but that doesn't stop you, and then you have to flat out attack me when I try to point out that you haven't any experience with it.
As a self professed city fellow gone country, I question the amount of experience you have had in general.
You come to the Kioti forum and post as though you know everything there is to know about the brand, when you've only "seen" them according to your own posts.
I don't go to any other brand forums to post negatives about the other brands, and I resent that you do. The general buying/pricing forum is where those comments MAY belong.
Just because you occasionally say good things about Kioti in general, and always use that to justify your negative remarks, doesn't change the fact that your opinion is YOUR opinion, and when an owner tell of happiness with a product, you have to come back and tell them why they shouldn't be so happy as is the case with the tiller. What business is it of yours to run down someone else's decision? They didn't ask your opinion before they bought, and don't need your negativity after the fact either.
Yes, I cheer for Kioti, and ALWAYS state whether I have used the model or not, and I've used most of them at least a little. I think I'm far more qualified to speak on a model that I've used than you are since you haven't used any of them.
DAP is probably right about the decision to make the CK25 as an economical way to fill a gap, and who knows why they did. The fact remains that it is still a good viable choice for many.
That is doesn't meet your demands is a moot point since you have your tractors and have experience with them. They are probably the ones you should comment on, not ANY you haven't tried out. But I know you'll continue to spout specs. So be it. John
EDIT: Oh, and GETUT, I didn't bring you into this, Bob did. He stated that I attacked you, but you'll notice who I responded to. Okay? John

 

[getut]

No problem John... I wasn't angry at any point. Its hard to be angry in a subjective thread like this.

I love my CK20 but it isn't perfect. I wish that it had just a little more a$$ as we call it around here. I don't like being limited by the pulling power. At this point in time it is either an HST or HP limitation in this product lineup although I mostly think it is a combination of the two in my case.

I still think it is the best all around decision I have ever made. But my PERSONAL opinion of a tractor is that it should have gobs of torque. In my opinion a tractor should run out of traction in nearly every circumstance before it runs out of anything else.

There are a few tractors out there that meet that spec for me... some of the B series from Kubota are much lighter machines but have equal or larger engines than the Kioti. Generally they are much more expensive tractors and have other limitations that turned me off instantly. In fact the only thing that I DID like about the B series was the power to weight and torque to weight ratio which is more in accord with what I think a tractor should be. I stay away from name brand stuff because around here there is a snobbishness about the big 3. I refuse to pay big bucks for a name.

I found everything OTHER than power to weight and torque to weight to lean in Kioti's favor. Price, fit and finish, dealer support all lean toward Kioti for me.

If my CK20 had the same power to weight ratio as the B7800 (closest spec weight wise) then it would have a 33.4 HP engine. Now that would tickle my fancy. <DROOOOOOL>

Getut

 

[DAP]

I think that's a fair statement however, I'm giving Kioti the benefit of the doubt that they put some gray matter into this.

For instance, by putting the 25hp on the 30 frame, they may have been looking for increased revenues from the implements match to the CK25. The CK loader, the Kioti rotary cutter, box blade, you name it, will all generate higher revenues for the CK25 on it's existing frame as opposed to the CK20 frame and it's smaller implements. I'm making the assumption they are at least that smart, but wouldn't be surprised if it had absolutely NOTHING to do with my hypothesis!

It's all rather moot for this year's models are out and being sold.

One LAST FYI - the dealer stated that Kioti has ABSORBED all of the steel price increases for this model year and this model year only.

Bottom line, look for Kioti price increases this winter, especially if they are showing respectable units sold numbers.

I wish they'd also lose that rocker style hydro pedal. It would be ok if my size 10 foot fit on both ends of it and I could actually rock from forward to reverse, but I have to lift and replace to change directions. Trivial admittedly.

Over and out.

 

[KiotiJohn]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I wish they'd also lose that rocker style hydro pedal. It would be ok if my size 10 foot fit on both ends of it and I could actually rock from forward to reverse, but I have to lift and replace to change directions. Trivial admittedly.)</font>
While I did use the two pedal system on other tractors when looking to buy, I never have used one in actual work so I'm not sure how much better they'd be. I have the opposite problem in a way, my foot is short and doesn't cover the whole pedal. I push forward with the front of my foot and reverse with the rear with my foot turned slightly sideways. It's not really a problem, but a two pedal config. may be better. I do remember someone posting that they didn't like their two pedal system because many times they were hitting the wrong one! Oh well, guess it's another of those subjective articles. John

 

[Bob_Skurka]

<font color="green"> No Bob, what I can't stand is the way you continue to voice your opinion, which is a vile one, when you have NEVER even used a CK25. You base most of your posts, other than ones dealing with your own equipment, on specs alone. Specs just don't tell the story as you think they do, but that doesn't stop you, and then you have to flat out attack me when I try to point out that you haven't any experience with it.
As a self professed city fellow gone country, I question the amount of experience you have had in general.
You come to the Kioti forum and post as though you know everything there is to know about the brand, when you've only "seen" them according to your own posts.
I don't go to any other brand forums to post negatives about the other brands, and I resent that you do. </font>

John, I am a self professed city boy moved to the country, bought my land 15 years ago, moved out to it 10 years ago, and I started out with garden tractors, then moved to both antiques and then to CUTs. I've used JD, Kubota, NH, Oliver, White, Ford, Farmall and AC all to one degree or another and in some cases several models of each, and some models I have 4 or 5 years worth of experience. I've also got about a decade of experience on industrial loaders and forklifts, as well as a couple decades expience with diesel power equipment ranging from light to heavy trucks, as well as loaders and tractors. I think I have a reasonable grasp on some things.

I understand that you don't go to other forums and post your opinions. I do, I post in many of the forums. The fact that you resent my posting in other forums (or in this forum) is of no concern to me, but obviously of condern to you. And I post good and bad points. I understand you consider my opinion of the CK25 to be vile. That is your choice. My opinion is subjective, my criticism of that model tractor is objective. I don't need to try it. I also don't need to be poked in the eye with a sharp stick to know that I don't want to try it. The fact is I am actually a booster of the Kioti brand because it is a solid well designed brand, I especially like the CK20 and CK30 and have been very consistent in posts supporting those two units, and I have done so in many forums. It really is only when threads like this get out of control and I am attacked for simply voicing a dissenting view that things get so far out of perspective. But the thing that keeps me going is all the "fan mail" I get by PM that supports my position from posters who don't want to be flamed for simply agreeing with me.

So John, I am sorry that you don't want me in "your" forum, but I am a visitor in many forums and I try to be objective in all of them.

 

[mathey]

ok everyone...group hug time?

 

[Bob_Skurka]

<font color="red"> ok everyone...group hug time?
</font>

Yea, I'm done with this thread, we are not talking about tractors anymore.

 

[Golfgar4]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( But the thing that keeps me going is all the "fan mail" I get by PM that supports my position from posters who don't want to be flamed for simply agreeing with me.
)</font>

Well, I've been watching this "discussion" going on for about 2 weeks now, and I guess I'll finally say something. Anyone is free to flame me if they want! /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

First, I want to say how much I respect BOTH Bob and John and their observations/comments/opinions on just about anything they feel the need to speak out on. I would accept either one of their recommendations on tractors/implements, regardless of whether they had actually used a particular kind. Based on what I've read from both of them, they are intelligent and inquistive individuals who obviously enjoy a little parrying back and forth with other people. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

In fact, more than once I started to send a pm to both of you in support of your viewpoints. But then I actually thought that it would be unfair to the other if I did that (even though the other wouldn't know about it). So rather than sending basically the same pm to both of you, I just stayed mute. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

Anyway, it's clear that the two of you are not going to agree on the CK25 vs CK30 discussion. That's fine. That's what's so great about TBN. It's an open forum where ideas can be offered, discussed, and debated in a reasonable atmosphere.

But the thing that really bothers me is that this "debate" has started to deteriorate to include personal attacks. Quite honestly, I believe that both of you guys are above that. Now it certainly has not deteriorated to something really nasty like we've seen sometimes in the past. And I don't really believe that either of you would allow that to happen, because you're both class acts. But it does seem like it has started to head that way.

I believe that if you two guys were able to meet over your favorite beverage (you each get your own so there's no disagreement! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif), and had a friendly talk, you'd end up being fast friends with more respect for each other's opinions.

Let's just finish this one off so that everyone can move forward and benefit from both of your insights about anything else . /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif