Pulling tree out with wheel & chain?
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dirttoys
Platinum Member
Could be mistaken, thought I read the OP thought there were too many to dig? I guess if he meant with a shovel then I agree.
Best,
ed
I am pretty sure the size of the wheel won't matter. You are just changing the direction of the pull, you aren't gaining any mechanical advantage.
But you might try pulling them over BEFORE you cut them. The higher in the tree the bigger the mechanical advantage.
Regardless of which method you use, it would be better if you could do it when the ground is saturated. If you have enough to remove it might be worth looking at what a bulldozer would cost .
Doug in SW IA
But you might try pulling them over BEFORE you cut them. The higher in the tree the bigger the mechanical advantage.
Regardless of which method you use, it would be better if you could do it when the ground is saturated. If you have enough to remove it might be worth looking at what a bulldozer would cost .
Doug in SW IA
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Saw a video where a jeep or something was stuck in a creek bed of soft sand to the frame. Another unit on dry land could not winch it out. Took spare tire off, like a 37" one, and placed that under which cable close to the stuck vehicle. Now the winch was able to break the suction. Jon
IndyIan
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Do these regrow from roots? I find chopping a few roots off with the axe is time well spent, and the scoop under from that side with a sharpened FEL bucket to chop some more roots and lift. If you rest the bucket on the ground and lift with the bucket curl function I don't think you can break anything. Lifting and pushing with momentum with the loader arms is where an Ag duty loader gets bent and broken.
If you have an acre of these or 100's, I'd price out a decent size excavator rental for a day and just get it done, anything you can pull with your tractor should be an easy scoop 2 second scoop with the right machine.
This guy I has space around all sides so I just cut the roots on 3 sides with the bucket, pushed it over, and then scooped the stump out. It was a manitoba maple so not the strongest tree but I don't think my tractor would pull the stump if cut it down and tried to pull on the stump if I didn't cut some roots first. Then I just stuffed the whole thing into a brush pile at the edge of the field.
If you have an acre of these or 100's, I'd price out a decent size excavator rental for a day and just get it done, anything you can pull with your tractor should be an easy scoop 2 second scoop with the right machine.
This guy I has space around all sides so I just cut the roots on 3 sides with the bucket, pushed it over, and then scooped the stump out. It was a manitoba maple so not the strongest tree but I don't think my tractor would pull the stump if cut it down and tried to pull on the stump if I didn't cut some roots first. Then I just stuffed the whole thing into a brush pile at the edge of the field.
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I have pretty rocky ground and digging roots out with a (tractor) backhoe can be pretty involved.
I can trivially pull over/pull out pine trees, but these guys don't behave nearly the same (besides the fact that they'll break off if you pull from a high enough point that leverage from the height is useful).
Some have noted that a wheel just changes direction of pull - correct, but still helpful since trees have apparently not considered that there's more to life than avoiding being pushed over and someone may try to pull them upwards... I wonder if trees in parts of Africa are different, since they have to deal with Elephants which sometimes pull trees out. A chain pulled over a wheel could break with an upward velocity component vector if the break is between the tree and the top of the wheel, while a break between the top of the wheel and the tractor should have the chain portion only moving towards the tow point (though there's a potential for rebound off of the ground, but this seems unlikely for a heavy chain in the duff).
The I-beam (that could be modified to an upside down "t") can be set up at an angle to provide significant mechanical advantage (when placed at an angle to the ground greater than 45°, there will be advantage; the higher the angle the higher the advantage, though for less distance). I have a heavy metal pipe A-frame thing that I thought of yesterday that would probably serve this purpose very well also.
I'm thinking of getting some grade 70 chain for the tree-to-leverage-device portion, since the tree-to-device portion of chain will be under much higher tension, and use my 3/8" grade 43 to pull on the beam/A-frame.
A break in the tree-to-device chain could have upward travel but that'll be localized. A break in the pulling part would be similar to a break in the similar part of the wheel setup
I can trivially pull over/pull out pine trees, but these guys don't behave nearly the same (besides the fact that they'll break off if you pull from a high enough point that leverage from the height is useful).
Some have noted that a wheel just changes direction of pull - correct, but still helpful since trees have apparently not considered that there's more to life than avoiding being pushed over and someone may try to pull them upwards... I wonder if trees in parts of Africa are different, since they have to deal with Elephants which sometimes pull trees out. A chain pulled over a wheel could break with an upward velocity component vector if the break is between the tree and the top of the wheel, while a break between the top of the wheel and the tractor should have the chain portion only moving towards the tow point (though there's a potential for rebound off of the ground, but this seems unlikely for a heavy chain in the duff).
The I-beam (that could be modified to an upside down "t") can be set up at an angle to provide significant mechanical advantage (when placed at an angle to the ground greater than 45°, there will be advantage; the higher the angle the higher the advantage, though for less distance). I have a heavy metal pipe A-frame thing that I thought of yesterday that would probably serve this purpose very well also.
I'm thinking of getting some grade 70 chain for the tree-to-leverage-device portion, since the tree-to-device portion of chain will be under much higher tension, and use my 3/8" grade 43 to pull on the beam/A-frame.
A break in the tree-to-device chain could have upward travel but that'll be localized. A break in the pulling part would be similar to a break in the similar part of the wheel setup
dirttoys
Platinum Member
rock on. Do be careful if it is just an open station tractor, I throw carharts or moving blankets on the chain/cable one close to the object being pulled, and one in the middle. Let us know how it goes
Best,
ed
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About 20 years ago I and a friend had to pull a bunch of poles out of the ground. They were buried about 3 feet deep and had been in the ground for decades. The poles were like smaller power poles, even treated the same with creosote and not rotted. The poles were stuck very well in the ground. My friend said we should use his High Lift jack. So we looped chain around the base of the pole and then over the jack tongue and worked the handle. This method worked very well and was pretty quick with both of use working. I wonder if the same method would work for trees. Maybe it could loosen them enough so that the tractor could then finish the job.
Eric
Eric
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The problem with chains around small trres, under 4" diameter and vertical pulling/lifting, is the chain will probably slid up the truck. Smaller chain size might bite better, but they may not have the strength to match the pulling force required. Jon
I usually wrap the chain around three times and then use a slip hook, usually gets a pretty decent bite.
Some of these trees have multiple trunks coming up from the stump base, which is worse in some ways (smaller trunks) but better in some (the trunks splay which gives an increasing overall diameter as you go up, assuming the trunks don't collapse inwards too much as you pull).
Example, not from my land but similar:
I don't expect to pull something like this pic without digging; I'm more after a "quick" pull of things a bit smaller that that (this part of the lot is overgrown with lots of scrub oak + manzanita + poison oak + other shrubbery, so most trees aren't super well established).
cqaigy2
Super Member
I've used the chain over wheel trick a bunch of time. Also used some big tree rounds. I'd use chain instead of wire rope, having broken a few chains, they dropped pretty fast and didn't spring very much.
npalen
Elite Member
Seems like there ought to be a way to wrap the strap or chain completely around the wheel or tire to gain mechanical advantage but probably impossible without some additional mechanism.
KennyG
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Wrapping it wouldn't gain anything. It's just changing direction, not multiplying the force. Now if you had several wheels you could rig up a giant block and tackle. Think about the design of that for a while.
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You would have to have the same number of wheels at the pulling end. Jon
KennyG
Elite Member
Depending on where you anchor and where you pull from, a block and tackle can have one less pulley on one block. In fact, if I were Rube Goldberging this I would probably anchor a single top wheel block to a frame (like an A frame), and lift from a double block on the bottom so the chain attached to the tractor would be low and parallel to the ground. The other end of the chain would be anchored to the upper block or the frame.
I'm looking forward to getting more precip to help loosen the ground a bit so I can try some of these ideas. Right now, the top couple inches are loose enough to make me think I can pull blackberries, but even they are still anchored too well and I'm certain the trees didn't get at all loosen by the performative rains we've gotten so far
Blue Mule
Platinum Member
The chain and wheel idea is neat. But I'm afraid of the consequences of a broken chain. It would become a violent whip, and the operator of the tractor/truck is in the line of fire. No thanks.
cqaigy2
Super Member
I've not experienced a chain whipping, it pretty much just drops. Now wire rope, that would be a different story.
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That's been my experience as well. My understanding was the line has to store energy by elastic stretching in order to whip and chains don't have much elasticity and lots of inertia to overcome which soaks up what little elasticity it has
A chain can definitely "fly", but I doubt it'll gain aerodynamic properties like a flying cable can... but it can go rapidly from the break point which can result in upward motion
Here's a worse example - screenshot from (
Note in both of these cases, they "jerked" the chain hard.
I suspect in most cases of a properly used chain (no jerking) that the chain will just drop flat, but it's definitely worthwhile to blanket or otherwise limit the ability of a broken puller (chain, strap, cable, rope) from flying.
