Pup trailers

[3 Horse Ranch]

Yes ive seen dumptrucks in Ontario keeping their blinkers on. When i remarked that, my cousin said "the next corner is right after, so he doesnt want his tag axles to drop yet"

I was intrigued that a whole regiment of tag axles was required to meet requirements of the road authorities, yet none of them was steered, meaning that the axle load on the fixed tandem was greatest when it was turning...

Then on the other hand, we here in The Netherlands are pretty unique in Europe, with a max GVW of 50 ton and 11.5 ton permitted on any axle that is driven, and more than 1.8m spaced from the next axle, which leads to vehicle configurations especially in construction, that are unique in Europe:

I noticed neither truck had spreader chains, they just dump in piles. This is what we routinely did, except if you timed it right your trailer ran empty right over the start of the truck spread.

 

[Renze]

I noticed neither truck had spreader chains, they just dump in piles. This is what we routinely did, except if you timed it right your trailer ran empty right over the start of the truck spread.

That practice is only commonspread in Scandinavia, where they have a lot of less intensively used roads, and lots of natural rock. And as you can see, the Swedish are allowed to haul 60 ton GVW, usually dont use AWD trucks, and more often use a wheel loader to spread the gravel than a grader. Oh, and they dump the trailer first, to maintain traction on the truck.

 

[3 Horse Ranch]

That practice is only commonspread in Scandinavia, where they have a lot of less intensively used roads, and lots of natural rock. And as you can see, the Swedish are allowed to haul 60 ton GVW, usually dont use AWD trucks, and more often use a wheel loader to spread the gravel than a grader. Oh, and they dump the trailer first, to maintain traction on the truck.

Quite a few of our jobs were with over 100 dump trucks unloading at an average of 1 per minute. The safest way was the double spread. I'd spread mine, a grader would smooth it out and two rolling compactors would compact it, the next truck would lay his load next to mine and so on. I worked one refinery job where the "safety officer" said it was too dangerous to have both boxes up at the same time. So we had to dump the trailer and back up to where the truck spread ended while trying to keep our trailer straight over a spread of loose material that it wanted to slide sideways off of as we backed, while the next truck spread his trailer inches from mine. Most dangerous job I ever worked.

 

[Renze]

Quite a few of our jobs were with over 100 dump trucks unloading at an average of 1 per minute. The safest way was the double spread. I'd spread mine, a grader would smooth it out and two rolling compactors would compact it, the next truck would lay his load next to mine and so on. I worked one refinery job where the "safety officer" said it was too dangerous to have both boxes up at the same time. So we had to dump the trailer and back up to where the truck spread ended while trying to keep our trailer straight over a spread of loose material that it wanted to slide sideways off of as we backed, while the next truck spread his trailer inches from mine. Most dangerous job I ever worked.

Here in Holland this would be a typical situation: 8x8 trucks hauling beach sand from a dredge pond, levelled and rolled in by a wheel loader. Graders are only used on large scale road projects, and owned by a handfull of specialised grading contractors. Dozers you see here less than in the rest of Europe too, only if mucky conditions demand so

When i show this to my pal in Southern Finland, he is amazed by how we waste our sand as fill: In Finland they ground all spoils dug from the Helsinki metro extension to fine sand to make concrete: over there, the soil consists of clay, loam, peat or rocks, but sand is scarce...

 

[4570Man]

That practice is only commonspread in Scandinavia, where they have a lot of less intensively used roads, and lots of natural rock. And as you can see, the Swedish are allowed to haul 60 ton GVW, usually dont use AWD trucks, and more often use a wheel loader to spread the gravel than a grader. Oh, and they dump the trailer first, to maintain traction on the truck.

Why would they not truck spread? That’s the fastest least work intensive way assuming it’s fairly level with enough overhead clearance. It makes even more sense of they’re pulling a pup since it doesn’t have to be backed around sideways to dump the truck.

 

[4570Man]

Here in Holland this would be a typical situation: 8x8 trucks hauling beach sand from a dredge pond, levelled and rolled in by a wheel loader. Graders are only used on large scale road projects, and owned by a handfull of specialised grading contractors. Dozers you see here less than in the rest of Europe too, only if mucky conditions demand so

When i show this to my pal in Southern Finland, he is amazed by how we waste our sand as fill: In Finland they ground all spoils dug from the Helsinki metro extension to fine sand to make concrete: over there, the soil consists of clay, loam, peat or rocks, but sand is scarce...

Spreading in a 4 foot lift is a way different situation than spreading gravel on a road.

 

[4570Man]

Quite a few of our jobs were with over 100 dump trucks unloading at an average of 1 per minute. The safest way was the double spread. I'd spread mine, a grader would smooth it out and two rolling compactors would compact it, the next truck would lay his load next to mine and so on. I worked one refinery job where the "safety officer" said it was too dangerous to have both boxes up at the same time. So we had to dump the trailer and back up to where the truck spread ended while trying to keep our trailer straight over a spread of loose material that it wanted to slide sideways off of as we backed, while the next truck spread his trailer inches from mine. Most dangerous job I ever worked.

What was the logic behind that? Even if it’s a fixed pintle which most dump trucks are it still provides zero stability against a roll over.

 

[Renze]

Spreading in a 4 foot lift is a way different situation than spreading gravel on a road.

Just, we dont spread gravel that way, as it has to be imported from abroad. We do dump a foot lift of crushed concrete under new asphalt roads, but maintaining a road by applying crushed concrete is not something you see happen here... a road here gets paved with bricks or gets asphalted, gravel roads are rare.

Even for our world famous Delta works dams, the boulders to protect the dams from washout are all imported.

 

[Renze]

Why would they not truck spread? That’s the fastest least work intensive way assuming it’s fairly level with enough overhead clearance. It makes even more sense of they’re pulling a pup since it doesn’t have to be backed around sideways to dump the truck.

Have you seen the video ? They do truck spread, but just dress up with a loader

 

[Hay Dude]

I noticed neither truck had spreader chains, they just dump in piles. This is what we routinely did, except if you timed it right your trailer ran empty right over the start of the truck spread.

That was skilled and impressive.

 

[ovrszd]

I maintain 50 miles of gravel roads. We get gravel once a year. Dumps with pups. They spread it all. I very, very rarely have to fix anything with the grader. If so it's because they had a mechanical failure or the tailgate tripped unintentionally. They spread at 15 mph. Including the sweeps at T intersections. Up hills. Down hills. Around corners. And they apply the gravel at the correct rate per mile. Masters. A pleasure to watch.

 

[3 Horse Ranch]

What was the logic behind that? Even if it’s a fixed pintle which most dump trucks are it still provides zero stability against a roll over.

I'm not sure of your question. The logic behind the refinery safety officer didn't exist. it was based on emotion and his visual perception and from a distance, not logic. The double dump logic, it's faster, it's safer to keep trucks moving in the same direction, the odds of a trailer flopping over are about the same whether it's moving or standing still since we were spreading on graded and compacted gravel. I worked three refinery rail projects all of them averaging 75 trucks dumping an average of 5 loads a day over a period of 90 to 120 days each and nobody ever flopped a trailer over at the refineries.

 

[Renze]

I worked three refinery rail projects all of them averaging 75 trucks dumping an average of 5 loads a day over a period of 90 to 120 days each and nobody ever flopped a trailer over at the refineries.

75x5x100 x say 20 yards at a time means 750.000 yards... Projects of that magnitude here, would be done by dredges, which either pump the mud directly from the lake or waterway through pipes suspended on floaters, or loaded on barges, which are transferred into a sludge pump system which continues to pump the sludge over land.

Here a highway project on land, with sand from the bottom of a waterbody

Here a barge is transferred into a pump suction pit

And here a coastal work: the extension of Rotterdam sea port, one of the worlds largest:

 

[Renze]

And heres an Austrian or German logger turning his pup trailer around on a mountain pass: these guys arend afraid, so to see

 

[3 Horse Ranch]

75x5x100 x say 20 yards at a time means 750.000 yards... Projects of that magnitude here, would be done by dredges, which either pump the mud directly from the lake or waterway through pipes suspended on floaters, or loaded on barges, which are transferred into a sludge pump system which continues to pump the sludge over land.

Here a highway project on land, with sand from the bottom of a waterbody

Here a barge is transferred into a pump suction pit

And here a coastal work: the extension of Rotterdam sea port, one of the worlds largest:

1. The refinery jobs weren't just fill, the material had to meet engineers compaction requirements and had to be structurally sound.
2. In the Northwest of the US you can't disturb the bottom of a waterway except under extreme circumstances due to First Nations treaty fishing rights.
3. The refineries wanted to avail themselves of the Bakken crude which because there are no pipelines, is shipped by rail. The first refinery we did claimed the project was paid for in 6 months by not having to buy foreign oil.
4. The permitting process alone to mine the sludge, set up pipelines, do environmental studies at the mine/dredging site and the job site would have taken years, if not decades. And even after everything is studied and permitted and even started, can be shut down buy governmental fiat or court order.

 

[Renze]

1. The refinery jobs weren't just fill, the material had to meet engineers compaction requirements and had to be structurally sound.
2. In the Northwest of the US you can't disturb the bottom of a waterway except under extreme circumstances due to First Nations treaty fishing rights.
3. The refineries wanted to avail themselves of the Bakken crude which because there are no pipelines, is shipped by rail. The first refinery we did claimed the project was paid for in 6 months by not having to buy foreign oil.
4. The permitting process alone to mine the sludge, set up pipelines, do environmental studies at the mine/dredging site and the job site would have taken years, if not decades. And even after everything is studied and permitted and even started, can be shut down buy governmental fiat or court order.

Soil compaction (including that of the existing soil underneath the fill) is done dynamically

 

[3 Horse Ranch]

That was skilled and impressive.

That's the way we did it but rolling a little faster. Engage the PTO on the fly, lift both boxes just past the second stage of the ram, trip the trailer when the spotter indicated, counted 1,2, tripped the truck and spread it 8-10 inches thick in one continuous swath with little or no gap or overlap. The next truck would spread his right beside. We would only stop to shorten up, sweep the reach and shake the spreader chains. Meanwhile, it was being continuously graded and compacted. The job was about 12 lanes wide

 

[3 Horse Ranch]

Soil compaction (including that of the existing soil underneath the fill) is done dynamically

Hauling it in and compacting worked here. When we were done hauling, they were done compacting, In places we were raising the grade by 20 feet.

 

[Renze]

Hauling it in and compacting worked here. When we were done hauling, they were done compacting, In places we were raising the grade by 20 feet.

In places, they put 20 feet of overburden on top of the grade, and wait 2 years till gravity pushes the bog aside. Only then they start removing the ballast soil, start compacting and build the road.

Compacting on the go might work on higher ground in the east, but most of our large scale projects are done in coastal regions where both dredge sand is nearby, and subsoil needs compacting beyond the depth reach of a sheepsfoot roller.

 

[3 Horse Ranch]

In places, they put 20 feet of overburden on top of the grade, and wait 2 years till gravity pushes the bog aside. Only then they start removing the ballast soil, start compacting and build the road.

I saw them doing this method in Canada when they built the east-west connector to the Alex Fraser bridge near Vancouver. In my region you can't simply dredge a river or a bay to get ballast for a project. Anything that might endanger fish habitat can't be touched because of the courts interpretation of a 150 year old treaty.