Pup trailers

[Renze]

View attachment 731905
Not much drag on this unit, and this is typical of modern designed tractors in North America. The trailers connect very close behind and often have skirts to help keep the underside of the trailer and axles from adding too much drag.

Yes, that looks more streamlined than a Pete 389 they still make..

In Europe, Paccar company Daf has taken over the lead in sales with their newest model:

DAF Trucks Global – Choose your Country or Market

DAF Trucks NV is a leading commercial vehicle manufacturer in Europe, offering a complete range of trucks: the DAF Euro 6 XF, CF and LF series. DAF is a wholly-owned subsidiary of PACCAR Inc.

startthefuture.daf.com

 

[3 Horse Ranch]

Yes, that looks more streamlined than a Pete 389 they still make..

In Europe, Paccar company Daf has taken over the lead in sales with their newest model:

DAF Trucks Global – Choose your Country or Market

DAF Trucks NV is a leading commercial vehicle manufacturer in Europe, offering a complete range of trucks: the DAF Euro 6 XF, CF and LF series. DAF is a wholly-owned subsidiary of PACCAR Inc.

startthefuture.daf.com

Paccar still makes the 389 as well as Kenworth W900, but those are most often purchased by owner-operators, flat bed fleets and small fleets. The larger fleets mostly buy the aerodynamic models. The W900 hasn't really changed all that much in 55 years. The single screw is a 1965 model, the tandem is a 2021 model.

My first truck boss owned a 1943 Kenworth tractor that didn't look a whole lot different than either of these. I think he said it had a 185 hp Cummins. Other than a narrow nose and a butterfly hood, the main difference was the front fenders flowed down into the cab steps like an early 1930s era car did.

 

[oliver1555]

Any advantage in aerodynamics of bonneted American trucks is nullified by air filters, steps and other parts sticking out. And the gap between cab and trailer is a source of wind drag too.

Most fleet operators run aerodynamic “curb sniffers” because the bean counters have determined that they do save fuel. A few gallons a day on a single truck isn’t much, but multiply that by a few hundred trucks in a carrier’s fleet, and that’s huge.

 

[oliver1555]

Yes, that looks more streamlined than a Pete 389 they still make..

In Europe, Paccar company Daf has taken over the lead in sales with their newest model:

DAF Trucks Global – Choose your Country or Market

DAF Trucks NV is a leading commercial vehicle manufacturer in Europe, offering a complete range of trucks: the DAF Euro 6 XF, CF and LF series. DAF is a wholly-owned subsidiary of PACCAR Inc.

startthefuture.daf.com

I know that’s the norm for trucks in Europe, but that is one butt ugly rig!

 

[3 Horse Ranch]

I know that’s the norm for trucks in Europe, but that is one butt ugly rig!

They do look pretty on the bean counters bottom line though. The T680's lines though are like a work of art. Kenworth did good on that design.

 

[oliver1555]

They do look pretty on the bean counters bottom line though. The T680's lines though are like a work of art. Kenworth did good on that design.

Yes, KW did a good job. I was referring to that DAF thing.

 

[Renze]

I know that’s the norm for trucks in Europe, but that is one butt ugly

Paccar still makes the 389 as well as Kenworth W900, but those are most often purchased by owner-operators, flat bed fleets and small fleets. The larger fleets mostly buy the aerodynamic models. The W900 hasn't really changed all that much in 55 years. The single screw is a 1965 model, the tandem is a 2021 model.
View attachment 731914View attachment 731915

The difference between the two, is that the latter now comes standard with the Daf engine.... even if you dont like Euro styling, Cummins is the only truck engine that isnt a European design...

Daf is looking for a bigger engine, as the Australian long-haul market is more and more looking for European cab-overs because of luxury and refinement, but the Daf engine (dubbed Paccar) is doing 530hp in its current form, a 120 ponies short of whats needed to match the other Europeans on the Australian market...

There have been test mules of a 560hp twin turbo MX13 in the previous generation, but they had problems packing it away under the cab. But a Cummins X15 isnt a big enough leap in torque to warrant the installment engineering, in its current form.

 

[Skeans1]

The difference between the two, is that the latter now comes standard with the Daf engine.... even if you dont like Euro styling, Cummins is the only truck engine that isnt a European design...

Daf is looking for a bigger engine, as the Australian long-haul market is more and more looking for European cab-overs because of luxury and refinement, but the Daf engine (dubbed Paccar) is doing 530hp in its current form, a 120 ponies short of whats needed to match the other Europeans on the Australian market...

There have been test mules of a 560hp twin turbo MX13 in the previous generation, but they had problems packing it away under the cab. But a Cummins X15 isnt a big enough leap in torque to warrant the installment engineering, in its current form.

Paccar engines are Cummins and what about Detroit?

 

[oliver1555]

even if you dont like Euro styling, Cummins is the only truck engine that isnt a European design...

Daf is looking for a bigger engine, as the Australian long-haul market is more and more looking for European cab-overs because of luxury and refinement, but the Daf engine (dubbed Paccar) is doing 530hp in its current form, a 120 ponies short of whats needed to match the other Europeans on the Australian market...

And right on cue, we go from a discussion about pup trailers to being schooled on the superiority of European thought and design…

 

[3 Horse Ranch]

Cummins is the only truck engine that isnt a European design...

Certainly European engines are common, but not the only ones. I didn't realize all the engine design engineers were fired from Detroit Diesel when they were bought by Daimler, but they must have been if all engines are European.
By far the best engine I ever operatized was a Cat 3506B. It was quiet, had good torque in the low end and didn't smoke at all. I was pulled into the scale in Canada at the Alex Fraser bridge and had one of their clean air officers tell me to floor the engine. I did as he asked and he said I didn't see any smoke and opened the door so he could watch me floor it. When he was done he said that that was the cleanest burning engine he had ever had through there. That was around 1998.

 

[Renze]

Paccar engines are Cummins and what about Detroit?

Paccar PX5, 7 and 9 are rebadged Cummins. Cummins will also build 4.5 and 6.7 engines in the Mercedes factory in Stuttgart to replace Mercedes smallest 4 and 6 pot engines. Scania adopted the Cummins 6.7 in their lighter trucks.
But the Paccar MX11 and MX13 are designed and developed in Eindhoven, the Netherlands.

 

[Renze]

And right on cue, we go from a discussion about pup trailers to being schooled on the superiority of European thought and design…

Those are your words. But the American industry did fall behind because of the commonspread idea of using EGR and soot filters to avoid DEF. It allmost bankrupted Navistar, and killed their engine production.

When it became obvious that nobody could achieve emission norms without DEF, Cummins was ahead because they already sold DEF equipped engines on the European market.

So no superiority, just poor business decisions because none of the US truck makers is active on the European market and vice versa, so both competition groups developed in different directions, with Navistar CEO Dan Ustian yelling his competitors nuts that they would be having a non-DEF engine, which his engineers said impossible.

Death By Hubris? The Catastrophic Decision That Could Bankrupt A Great American Manufacturer

One of America's most storied manufacturers, $14 billion Navistar, survived the Civil War, the Depression and World War II. A stubborn decision by its CEO has jeopardized its future

www.forbes.com

The way Navistar was in the game, damaged an entire industry by keeping most of its North American competition on an evolutionary dead end for too long. Its just tragic.

 

[oliver1555]

Those are your words.

Just my observation. You push COE trucks and that’s what the European market wants. The American market prefers conventional trucks. The manufacturers will produce what the market wants.

 

[oliver1555]

Getting back on track, here is an example of a pup with a tandem axle dolly/converter - much more stable in turns on rough terrain. Disclaimer - not my picture. I surfed this up on the net.

 

[Renze]

Just my observation. You push COE trucks and that’s what the European market wants. The American market prefers conventional trucks. The manufacturers will produce what the market wants.

No, i show you guys the European perspective, i thought you might like that, as much as i enjoy reading about the North American perspective.

Interestingly enough, the Australian and NZ market is the only market where trucks from three continents are sold: European, Asian and North American. So it is interesting that Australian truckers are slowly accepting European cabovers for the long haul, where a decade ago, this was the sole territory of US designed (and even locally assembled) trucks.

And the manufacturers dont allways produce what the market wants: Henry Ford said: "If i had asked customers what they wanted, they would have said faster horses"

 

[QRTRHRS]

Re: cab over trucks in the US. They mainly went away when the allowable length laws were changed. I may be wrong because I was out of the industry during that time but wheelbase and bridge laws may have come into play? Same way with conventionals running setback front axles?

Then there was the idea about being the first one on the scene of an accident, replacing the windshield after failing to secure some item and then jacking up the cab to check on the engine, etc.

The old cab overs are interesting to look at say at a truck show like in Macungie, PA but having driven a number of miles in a GMC Astro, an F model Mack and a Mack Cruisliner, good riddance.

Anyway, back to the topic, sorry to digress.

 

[Renze]

Heres another pup trailer: This is a Finnish combination, of a 20 ton truck and a 40 ton trailer: Reason for this is because Finland allows 20t GCW on snowed roads in winter, and 60 ton in summer.

The truck is a Scania 142 V8, which has a cult following in Europe, its predecessor the Scania 140 was the first production truck in 1969 to hit the 350hp mark in Europe, with its 14.2 liter V8 and 970 foot pounds of torque at 1450rpm, which was unheard of at that time

Scania unveils its 350bhp turbo V8 | 12th September 1969 | The Commercial Motor Archive

'Scania unveils its 350bhp turbo V8' first printed in the 12th September 1969 issue of Commercial Motor

archive.commercialmotor.com

 

[3 Horse Ranch]

Heres another pup trailer: This is a Finnish combination, of a 20 ton truck and a 40 ton trailer: Reason for this is because Finland allows 20t GCW on snowed roads in winter, and 60 ton in summer.

The truck is a Scania 142 V8, which has a cult following in Europe, its predecessor the Scania 140 was the first production truck in 1969 to hit the 350hp mark in Europe, with its 14.2 liter V8 and 970 foot pounds of torque at 1450rpm, which was unheard of at that time

Scania unveils its 350bhp turbo V8 | 12th September 1969 | The Commercial Motor Archive

'Scania unveils its 350bhp turbo V8' first printed in the 12th September 1969 issue of Commercial Motor

archive.commercialmotor.com

It's amazing to think of some of the old trucks and nerve it took to drive them. The 1943 Kenworth I mentioned before was crude compared to trucks of even 40 years ago. The cab wasn't much wider than a VW old Beetle and had a bench seat. The sleeper was literally the width of a coffin and accessed from the outside by a door on the left side. I never drove it but my boss said it was a 4 & 4 square tooth no synchro transmission. The parking brake was a compression band on the driveline and operated by a cable. No front axle brakes and 185 horse power.

 

[Renze]

18 years ago at one of my first jobs after school, at a nationally operating road construction contractors service branch, one allmost retired mechanic remembered his days at the Daf truck dealer: rebuilds were frequent in the late 60s and that was before tilt cabs: you had to unbolt the floor to access the engine and adjust the valve clearance every 100.000km. For a rebuild, you better take off the entire cab...

That shop was founded in 1965 and they ceased it 10 years ago: probably because knowledge was gone when 70% of employees retired over just a couple of years...

But my goodness, when those asphalt paver operators come to the shop in winter time with their machines, and you hear all the banter about what they have seen out on the road in the past year.... it was a great experience

 

[Renze]

Heres another row of pup trailers: the Swedish are experimenting with 90 ton logging road trains to reduce cost (off course in todays culture you must say its better for the environment to get legislators moving)