Purchase Grand L Ten or M Series? Need help...

[mikeslavis]

All,

I'll try to keep this as short as possible, and THANKS in advance for any help...usual disclaimers apply (been lurking for a few months, reading posts, ready to buy tractor at this point, suburbanite moving to the country w/minimal tractor experience, etc..etc..).

The specifics: Moving to hobby farm, 90 acres in Rochester, NY area November 1. 60 acres of flat Fields currently rented to local farmers plus 15 acres woods plus 15 acres pasture with 2 ponds. My wife and I most interested in tree farming, with the intent of converting the fields back to forest over time and eventually running a nursery there (We're both 8-to-5'ers right now). We'll need the tractor for the following: Snow plowing, tilling, moving dirt, spading trees, chipping/splitting wood, skidding logs, mowing lawn, digging/grading and possibly for sowing/spraying as well (down the road a bit). We'd like the tractor to be able to handle these chores easily, and also would like an enclosed Cab (it gets both very cold and very hot here, plus wife allergic to bees). Initial implements would most likely be an FEL and box scraper with a rear-PTO-driven mower in the spring.

This leads me to the Grand L Ten series L3710, L4310 and L4610 as well as the M4900, M5700. And this is where I need some help, because my ignorance begins to show. Here's what I know are the MAJOR differences between the L- and M-series:

L-series is compact tractor equipped with Cat I 3-point hitch.
M-Series is utility/ag tractor equipped with Cat I/II 3-point hitch.
What implements will work only on Cat II hitches? Is it matter of size only, or are there entire classes of implements that won't work on a Cat I hitch that I may eventually need? In particular I'm worried about a discing implement and a tree spade, along with the big "batwing" mowers. Hopefully someone with experience will know something...

L-series has HST available.
M-series does not.
I've come to appreciate the values of HST from posts by all of you here, and think I will "miss" the HST if I go with an M-series. Am I missing anything here? Is there any reason a "standard" geared-trasmission would be "better" for the kind of work I'm looking to do, or would I be better served by an HST, specifically?

L3710 has mid-mount PTO.
No other models I'm considering do.
This means I could attach a MMM or Snowblower to the L3710 (most interested in the snowblower). Does anyone have any experience with how well the snowblower works? (I've seen posts on the rather disliked MMM, so I'm not really planning on using it - especially since I'll be going with Ag or Industrial tires). I may not need the Snowblower if it plows really well, has anyone ever used the FEL for plowing and how well does that work (pushing the snow instead of redirecting it)?

Obviously the M-series is bigger/more power/more capacity/more expensive, and I'm just not sure if the L-series has enough power for what I'm looking to do. I always hear "buy the biggest tractor you can afford", and the M is a bit more than I can afford, but I will "stretch" things a bit if it gives me Way increased benefit over the Grand L.

The PTO HP on the "lowest" vs. "Highest" on my Kubota list is 30 on the L3710HSTC vs. 52 on the M5700. The price differential (From Carver - Tractor only!) is $22,000 for the L3710HSTC vs. $26,000 for the M5700, with the other models in-between. I haven't contacted Mr. Carver yet because I wanted to get some feedback from you, and visit my local dealer first.

Sorry about the length!

Mike Slavis
mike@slavis.com

 

[SmokyMtnMan]

Well, I'm sure going to be watching this post in next few days! Sounds like you and I are at same point in decision making with same models in consideration. Of course, I wouldn't know what to do with all that flat land you show there. Must be nice.
You may want to view my post also to get some ideas.."Ready to purchase...etc"

you get more snow than i do here so that snowblower/mid-mount decsion might be more of a factor up there.....but here I can get by with a blade I think.....other than that our decision-making process is going to be similar...

they almost had me going with the 4610HST with cab...until I got to thinking about the M-4900....I went to dealer yesterday and noticed there's quite a bit of difference in ground clearance and rear tire size on the two with M series being much higher off ground and tires much taller to me...
not sure if the cab on the M's are different from Grand L's though
good luck

 

[mikeslavis]

SmokyMtnMan,

Ha! I've been following your post but decided to post my own since yours dealt solely with the Grand L Series tractors. Sounds like you're pushing to the bigger M now as well. I'm just trying to weigh it all out and figure if I need to spend the extra money or can get by with the Grand L (and the HST).

I'm hoping some here can answer the questions I've posted, a big difference between Grand L and M-series is that the Grand L is the "biggest" of the "compact" tractors and the M is the "smallest" of the "utility/ag" tractors (hence, I believe, the Cat I vs. Cat I/II hitches on the machines). Since this is a compact tractor group they may not know much about the M series, but I figured I'd ask anyway since I know so little myself.

I'll keep you posted on where I'm going after I visit my dealer here and get responses to the post.

Thanks!
Mike Slavis
mike@slavis.com

 

[Bird]

Mike & SmokyMtnMan, I assume you have both gone to Kubota's web site at http://www.kubota.com and looked at the specs and other information they have there. Moving up to the M series gets you a 5 cylinder engine in a bigger tractor that's made more for farming and commercial use. I happen to like the convenience of an HST transmission which is not available in the M series yet; however, I've actually put more hours on geared tractors than with an HST, so if you don't mind that, and the extra cost, I'd naturally recommend you move on up to the M series. And while I have NO hours experience in operating the bigger Kubotas, I have climbed up in the cab of several of the L and M series with cabs up to and including the M120; just sat there and drooled on the steering wheel. Really nice cabs in my opinion!

Bird

 

[hayden]

It's kind of odd, but the M4900 and M5700 are 5 cylinders, but the M6800, M8200, and M9000 drop back down to 4 cylinders.

Same thing happens with the B/L series. The B7500 and B2410 are 3 cyl, the 2710 and 2910 are 4, then the L 3010 and 3410 drop back to 3 cyl, then it goes back to 4 for the L3710, 4310, and 4610.

Go figure.

 

[hayden]

Keep in mind that with a front snow blower you have to remove the loader. With a rear blower you can keep the loader on and use both without having the change implements. I find this very usefull. The rear facing blower isn't bad once you get used to it. I've learned to sit kind of side saddle.

 

[gordon]

Now that is one tough decision. I was going down the same road a while back and the decision factor had alot to do with the trans. I would have a M series right now if it had a HST as an option. But here are a few more problems you might want to consider in the decision process.

What type of tree planting will you be doing? You will have to plan your rows according to how wide the tractor is. Also the larger implements are class II they are built heavier than most class I. For snow removal the front end loader will move snow but you will find it's a pain to push snow with it.

Bottom line the larger the tractor the quicker you can get things done. The larger tractor also has a larger turning radius. The larger tractor has more hp. So you will have to weigh out how much the HST means to you. Both the L and the M are very nice tractors. Best thing if possible try and test drive both to see the differences.

Gordon

 

[frank_f15]

mike: seems to me u are not going to be able to get one tractor to excel in all u want to do.a tractor big enough to skid and split logs and plow ground is not going to be an ideal lawn cutter. i think u need to stay in the upper l"s or lower m models. i personally like the hst and being i am from your area (20 mi south of buffalo) i am personally familar with the weather. i use my fel and a back blade for moving snow, a front blower is nice , but then u loose the fel. btw my youngest daughter lives in MACEDON(north of pennfied) and a good friend lives in north chili. get up that way often. i think u have a tough call /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

 

[JJT]

I also live in the NYS snow belt, I have the L3710 w/ 78" rear blower. I could not clear my 800' driver with the FEL, the blower is actually quicker than my previous 4x4 pickup/plow. I could not live w/o the HST, there are times I would like a little more HP, but things work out by slowing down, (6' brush hog with a steady diet of 1 - 2" hardwoood saplings or breaking virgin ground with the 6' tiller....). Annually I hay 50 acres and brush hog another 25 acres of pasture and another 25 acres of reclaimation work. I'd love to have the grand L cab, but cannot justify the $. The Carharts work just fine. If your wife is going to use the tractor then HST's the only way to go.

 

[Gatorboy]

Mike,

I currently have an M8950 with 7700 hours on it, and if I were to buy a new tractor today, I would consider the M5700, but nothing smaller. Not having HST would not bother me in the least. I run a 15' flexwing with a pull-type hitch, and it cuts nearly as well as a finish mower. With the amount of land you will most likely need to mow, I would suggest a nice Rhino Flexwing as well.



I have planted 400 seedlings (pines & oaks) and to cut around those -- as well as for my future lawn around my future home -- I have bought a 48" Scag walk-behind. And with this mower, I challenge any compact tractor owner with a 60" deck or less to a lawn cutting contest. I would smoke'em.



The M-Series tractors may seem "big" when you look at them on the dealer's lot, but let me assure you, once you run one for a few hours, you will not think of it as "big", but just another tractor.

The one thing to be aware of, is the more HP you have, the bigger attachments you will need -- which will cost more.

You are not going to find the "perfect" solution from any one person, but hopefully you can digest the thoughts of others and come up with a good decision for yourself.

Good Luck!

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Regards,
Dave "Gatorboy" Hoffmann
Fallston, Maryland