Purchase Grand L Ten or M Series? Need help...

[Harv]

<font color=blue>The M-Series tractors may seem "big"</font color=blue>

Holy Moly, Dave!!! /w3tcompact/icons/shocked.gif

You could run over my li'l L with that monster and probably not even notice. /w3tcompact/icons/crazy.gif

Cool! /w3tcompact/icons/cool.gif

 

[glennmac]

Mike, it sounds like you are not going to be doing any serious dirt-engaging farming work. Based on that assumption, and my strong bias toward HST, I think you can do all the non-tree-farm work with a 4610. You can pull a batwing with it or a 7' brushcutter. You can also mow a lawn with a smaller 3ph mower. You might want to invest in Michelin XM27's, which should be great in snow, and a 4n1 bucket.

But you might want to think about having a second machine also, and I suggest that you look at a skidsteer. The first reason I suggest this is because a cab may be incompatible with a backhoe--we have had agonizing about this here--and I think you will need a backhoe for your tree farming work. I suggest the skidsteer because it may have attachments more suited to tree farming chores. All of the big tree farms that I have seen use them. Dig holes with the hoe, carry rootballs with forks, adjust the ball in the hole with forks, move the dirt with a bucket. These attachemts go on and off the bobcat in a matter of seconds. The skidsteers may also have better spading attachments than tractors do.

I dont own any of this kind of equipment myself, but I'm just trying to add some thoughts.

 

[mikeslavis]

Everyone,

Thanks for the words so far. You've given me lots to digest, and I'm hoping to go to the Kubota dealer today to get up close and personal with these machines, so maybe that'll help me out a bit. I'll try to cover some of the things you've said that really have me thinking now...

Bird, I don't think I'd have a problem with a geared transmission, just that I'd prefer HST. It sounds like you think the cabs of both Grand L and M series are good, so I'll try to check them both out and see if I can find any glaring differences between them.

hayden, that is odd about the cylinders, but the 4 cylinder M6800, M8200, and M9000 have more displacement than the 5 cylinder in the M4900 and M5700, meaning they'll produce more torque/power even though there's one less cylinder (although they probably won't be as efficient on gas). I hadn't given much thought to a rear blower, but I'll keep in mind that it doesn't sound like you lose productivity over a front blower AND you get to keep the FEL on.

gordon, my wife and I realized our rows would be dependent on the tractor size, and we even took a quick peek at the skinny "vineyard' tractors, but they're all $$$$$. We are keeping this in mind and it's one reason I want to get the tractor BEFORE we start doing some major planting. I realize class II handles the larger implements, but was wondering if anyone knew of an implements that you COULDN'T use with class I for the typ of stuff I'm doing. It doesn't sound like it so far, so my worries on this one are subsiding. It sounds more like I'll just need to run a 6' discer instead of a 12' discer (If I ever need to disc the land, that is). I'm hoping to visit the dealer today for a look-see and maybe schedule a test drive.

frank_f15, good points. I'm not looking for a real "Finished" look to the lawn, though, just wanting to keep the brush down. Pits from the tires of a large tractor aren't that big a deal to me. I'm glad to hear you can get by using the FEL with a back blade for snow and I'm leaning less toward the front mounted snow blower now based on previous comments. I'm in Pittsford right now and the farm is in Hopewell (right next to Canandaigua).

JJT, this reassures me that a rear snow blower will do what I need. Right now I have a 200' driveway to keep clear, but I may eventually want to keep the main laneway through the land clear as well and this is over 1000' (We'll see how much work this is first, though! ). It's good to know that your L3710 can handle saplings and a 6' tiller. This is definitely the kind of feedback I'm looking for...if I went with the bigger L4xxx maybe the HP issue would go away? You've got around the same size land to tend that I do, so at least I know the Grand L is not "too small" a tractor to handle this...and that's good. My wife is pretty good with machinery and I think she could handle a geared tractor (unless the clutch takes, like, hundreds of punds of force to depress). I'm thinking HST would be easier for both of us!

gatorboy, thanks for the Rhino Flexwing tip. I'll look into this for sure. I saw your pictures - very nice - and have thought that we'll maybe need to add some "specialty" mowers and things like that in the future, but right now I'm looking to get the one machine that "best" covers present and future needs. I was originally looking at New Holland TN-series tractors, but they're prohibitively expensive for our budget, so I started looking at the Grand Ls, and now I'm also considering the Ms. Also, I could still run the smaller attachments on a bigger tractor if I wanted to, right? It'd just be a matter of under-utilizing the tractor's potential.

Harv, Ha! I wish I could get away a smaller tractor, it would save me $$$$$.

glennmac, Thanks for the reassurance that the 4610 could handle almost all the work. I'm going to look into this deeper today at the dealer. I have been considering a 4n1 bucket as well to server many functions. On the skid steer - I actually was hoping to get a skid steer INSTEAD of a tractor when I first started looking, because it'll do everything that I want except 1 VERY important function - Mowing. Those front-mounted skid steer mowers aren't very big and I'll bet mowing with a Skid Steer isn't very efficient. My plan morphed into getting a Tractor for now and thinking about a Skid Steer later. I *wish* I had the $ to get both, but have to settle for one for now. I have also contacted tree spade manufacturers and they ALL recommended Skid Steers for their products. We're hoping in 10 years or so when our trees are of spadable size, we'll re-visit getting a skid steer.

Thanks again all, and I'll try to post new questions later after I visit the dealer (I'm sure I'll think of something right as I drive away! ).

Mike Slavis
mike@slavis.com

 

[cowboydoc]

Mike,
Speaking from firsthand experience doing what you want to do on that big of an operation you need the M series IF that is going to be the only tractor that you are going to use. YOU WILL be very limited on alot of the higher end implements that you can use with only a cat.1 implement tractor. I'm fortunate in that I have a large tractor- 90 horse cat 3, a compact- JD 4600, and skidsteer. BUT if I could only have one of them I would have to take the large tractor. The reason is that I could do everything I needed with the large tractor that the smaller one and skidsteer would do but not vice versa. For what you want to do only having the smaller tractor will limit you. Like Bird said HST is nice but certainly you won't miss it much after you get used to running your tractor. I can pretty much guarantee you you will regret not having the bigger tractor. Like Gatorboy said he pulls a 15' batwing with that tractor of his. That will be a no go with a smaller one and you will be stuck mowing with a 7' one. That takes alot more time. Also think of hydraulics. With the smaller tractor if you ever want to get some of the higher end tree implements that will also be a no go with the smaller tractor as you won't have the hydraulics to run alot of them. Go with the cat I and II and you will have a much greater variety as far as to what you can do and accomplish. Don't limit yourself. You're talking about way too big of an operation to be cut yourself short.

 

[Bird]

Mike, the more this is discussed, and with all the things you want to do and implements you want to use, the more I agree with Cowboydoc, that you'll be better off to forget the HST and just consider the M series tractors.

I really like my HST; never liked doing so much clutching and shifting to change speeds and/or directions, but nowadays with synchromesh transmissions, shuttle shift, etc., I might like them a lot better. Those are two things I never had on any tractors I used. Of course, if you go big enough in the M series, there is a powershift transmission available./w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif I've never used a Kubota with powershift, but I've done just a tiny bit of hay baling in an air-conditioned Deere with powershift. Sure was nice.

Bird

 

[glennmac]

Well, I am really out my experience in discussing utility tractors, but let me review some of the assumptions I am making about Mike's situation. He has 90 acres, of which he leases out 60. That leaves him with 30. 15 of those are woods, in which he may do no tractor chores on a regular basis. That leaves the 15 acres he calls pasture and fields. He says he wants to let part of that return to forest. The rest he wants to maintain and tree farm.

So, I'm making an assumption, which could be all wrong, that he will effectively be tractoring no more than 15 acres. I'm further assuming he will not be doing any heavy duty power agricultural chores on that 15 acres such as plowing or haying/baling. Under these assumptions, I believe an HST Grand L is sufficient.

A couple of clarifications. I said a 4610 can pull a 15' batwing. I was referring to a finish mower batwing, and using Mike Reeter's rig as my example. I think Gatorboy's batwing is a brush cutter, so a 4610 may be too small to power that. Finally, I have heard that Kubota is going to add HST to some of the M series, but I dont know any details as yet.

 

[cowboydoc]

. My wife and I most interested in tree farming, with the intent of converting the fields back to forest over time and eventually running a nursery there (We're both 8-to-5'ers right now). We'll need the tractor for the following: Snow plowing, tilling, moving dirt, spading trees, chipping/splitting wood, skidding logs, mowing lawn, digging/grading and possibly for sowing/spraying as well (down the road a bit). We'd like the tractor to be able to handle these chores easily, and also would like an enclosed Cab (it gets both very cold and very hot here, plus wife allergic to bees). Initial implements would most likely be an FEL and box scraper with a rear-PTO-driven mower in the spring.


Glenn,
Yea it's hard to say exactly. I got the impression he was going to be converting the 90 acres back to forest. He mentioned spading for trees and I know that takes a big tractor. Also to prepare the soil it's going to have to be disced, plowed, etc. which is going to take a big tractor. Also skidding logs takes a big tractor as well to do it easily as he mentioned. Then after the trees are planted you need to mow all of that and I doubt it's going to be finish material. Digging, spraying, grading, etc. would also be easier with a bigger tractor as well IF he's going to be doing 90 acres worth. Then he had said that he wanted to do everything easily. 30 acres yea you'd probably be right except for the spade issue. 90 acres I'd say much bigger tractor. So based on the info. above I would say we both could be right.

 

[Von]

Re: Purchase Grand L Ten or M Series? Need help..

Mike,
Welcome to TBN. As a neighbor (I live in Fairport, and my Antique shop Is in Victor) I wish I could help with your problem, but I only know about the smaller tractors. I do know that you will need to shop around to get a good deal, local dealer near here was $3k higher than carver for a B2710 and thats before sales tax! Plus was $400 over list price for a Curtis cab for my tractor, Whites near Syracuse was about $300 under list! Art White has good prices and is not too far away from us, so it would be worth giving him a call or email for a quote when you figure out what you want. Good luck on your search.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Mike,

About 2 years ago, I got pricing on the M6800 MFWD for around $21k w/o cab, assuming another $4k for cab would put you at your upper budget limit of $26k...

With 62 PTO hp, and fully syncro trans., this Kubota should handle all 90 acres and then some...

With the amount of land you have and the potential work you'll generate over the next 20 years, and the slight difference in initial cost today {$4-6K}, I wouldn't even consider an "L" series... minimum PTO hp I would look for would be no less than 50 and for a couple dollars more the M6800 w/cab and loader & 62 PTO hp should serve you and your wife for many many years into the future with only smiles on your faces and no regrets...

 

[glennmac]

Richard, I agree. As always, it will depend on how big a real area he wants to work (sometimes people underestimate or overestimate), what exactly are the important chores (sometimes its hard to foresee and prioritize), and how fast he wants to do it all. I think we all agree that, when in doubt, bigger is better.

I, too, am interested in planting and tree farming when I get my land cleared and dried out. I have lots of books on trees, and sometimes throw around the Latin names. The spading issued concerned me, too, so that is why I suggested a skidsteer. I really havent gotten to the point where I have researched tree planting, excavating and moving implements.