QA Bucket Rollback Angle Increaser???
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SPYDERLK
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Dougster said:Can't seem to link to it tonight... but Jeremy replied in another thread as follows:
It is quite possible mine is damaged... but it sounds more like it might be that old design flaw.
Dougster
So youre part of KMWs learning curve? [Thank you very much. We need more like you who do not insist that a design be suitable for the application.] Or do they stand up and give you a correctly designed update?
larry
Not exactly sure what you're suggesting here Larry.SPYDERLK said:So youre part of KMWs learning curve? [Thank you very much. We need more like you who do not insist that a design be suitable for the application.] Or do they stand up and give you a correctly designed update?
larry
As the second owner of my late-2004 machine, this is clearly not a warranty issue. One could say "shame on the original owner" of my machine for not pursuing the bucket latch problem I discovered... but them's the breaks when you buy a used machine: Ya investigate it and fix it yourself at your own expense.Once I rebuilt the bucket latches, I figured the bucket dropping problem was behind me. Turns out I was wrong (or at least partly wrong). Now it's time to look elsewhere for the remaining problem(s) and the solution(s).
I don't know yet whether it is an old KMW design problem or whether my machine is damaged or both. The machine was used when I bought it and I am not exactly gentle with this machine... so anything is possible.
Give it a little more time before you condemn KMW for bad design and me for "not insisting that a design be suitable for the application." I don't even know if my late-2004 had the design problem or if it was made after the fix. KMW has been cooperative and helpful with me in the past and I have no reason to believe that it's now going to be any different.
Dougster
SPYDERLK
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Dougster said:Not exactly sure what you're suggesting here Larry.
Once I rebuilt the bucket latches, I figured the bucket dropping problem was behind me. Turns out I was wrong (or at least partly wrong). Now it's time to look elsewhere for the remaining problem(s) and the solution(s).
I don't know yet whether it is an old KMW design problem or whether my machine is damaged or both. The machine was used when I bought it and I am not exactly gentle with this machine... so anything is possible.
Give it a little more time before you condemn KMW for bad design and me for "not insisting that a design be suitable for the application." I don't even know if my late-2004 had the design problem or if it was made after the fix. KMW has been cooperative and helpful with me in the past and I have no reason to believe that it's now going to be any different.
Dougster
Sorry Dougster. I didnt mean to condemn you. Those [brackets] were my imagining how good this type of occurrance comes out for the ones actually responsible. Their learning comes at the expense of the user. Regardless of the timing, it should not just be your hard luck. It seems dropping buckets could be a real safety issue and they have addressed it forward only. They should extend some consideration to you if your problem did not occur from damage.
larry
I've been in contact with KMW today and I am very happy to report that they are standing behind their product. Don't want to get too excited about the fix until a couple jobs go by without a single detachment... but I'm "cautiously optimistic" that KMW and I are finally on the right track.SPYDERLK said:
Stay tuned!Meanwhwile, I spent quite a bit of time today looking for possible damage and rebuilding the latches yet again. Turns out that the replacement springs I recently bought through Mahindra are quite different than the original springs... and from the replacements I had purchased locally to essentially match those original springs before the Mahindra springs arrived. Now knowing of the difference, I swapped over to the Mahindra-supplied springs today to see if they will make any difference in performance.
I also found some minor damage to latch components which I fixed... possibly the result of so many drops. Still, I'm seeing an unusual looseness in the left pin even after today's rebuilding. I will adjust the pins again before tomorrow's job to get them as even in tightness and insertion pressure as possible.
The tool carrier itself has some unusual wear points near the bottom which I will try to match up to my various buckets over the next week or so. Again, this could be nothing... or possibly just the result of the many drops.
Dougster
SPYDERLK
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On mine it is impossible for the pins to retract out of their slots unless the lever handle is thrown up to retract them. The springs justlocate the levers in the down detented position. In the down/lock detent position the lever is overcentered on the pivot. Pin force against the lever just reinforces its position securing it even more in the lock orientation. Like yours??
larry
larry
Mine is mostly as you have described; however, the pins are definitely held down by the springs... not by the guide rod which is free to move upward (along with the attached pins) as necessary compressing the spring. In other words, the spring does more than just lock the mechanism in place. The spring is also what applies the downward force to the pins. With my original springs (and the near-identical locally bought replacements) much more upward movement was possible (due to fewer and wider spaced coils) than with these new springs I recently purchased through Mahindra.SPYDERLK said:
Dougster
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Yeah, the spring does apply down force seating the pin fully engaged, but if the pin rises against spring force its guide rod soon hits a hard stop overcentered on the lever. On mine the hard stop occurs after the pins rise about 1/4". This leaves them still protruding about 1/4" thru the slots. I dont see how my bucket can come off w/o bending or breaking something.
larry
larry
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We must have different designs. There are no hard stops on mine whatsoever other than when a spring completely bottoms out. If the spring were not there, the pin and the bottom of the guide rod could rise all the way up to the spring stop and pivot assembly. This is why the springs are so critical on my design.SPYDERLK said:
Take a look at this photo:
The first spring is a used and badly compressed/distorted original style spring. The second is an original style spring in good condition (same as I had installed). The last one is a new design spring I recently purchased through Mahindra. You can clearly see that the newest style spring has many more coils and will not compress down nearly as much before bottoming out. This is why I swapped in those newest style springs last night after comparing new vs. old and seeing the difference.
We'll see today if the new style springs help. My sense is that they might help reduce the number of drops... but based on my observations of the failure mechanism, this is not likely to be the complete solution.
Dougster
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ML 275 SKDougster said:
http://www.tractorbynet.com/photos/showphoto.php/photo/4305
Shady photo below, but there might be enuf to pick out the pertinent points
http://www.tractorbynet.com/photos/showphoto.php/photo/4306
Different from yours I guess.
larry
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So Doug,
Did you end up getting that adapter from eBay?
If not, I'd like to suggest another alternative along the lines that Johnbud suggested.
Drill another hole towards the front of you bucket mounts to allow it to pivot back more. I have rotated your bracket to show it in the new position. It would be pretty easy to do and would work for temporary use like you are wanting. Have your bucket mounted and remove that top pin. (Be safe) Then pivot pivot it back so it doesn't hit the cylinder and choose that point where the hole in the cylinder rod is. That should give you more curl than you have right now. It would be easy to do and you could try it out. If you don't like it, it doesn't hurt a thing. Move it back to the standard holes for all you other work?
Did you end up getting that adapter from eBay?
If not, I'd like to suggest another alternative along the lines that Johnbud suggested.
Drill another hole towards the front of you bucket mounts to allow it to pivot back more. I have rotated your bracket to show it in the new position. It would be pretty easy to do and would work for temporary use like you are wanting. Have your bucket mounted and remove that top pin. (Be safe) Then pivot pivot it back so it doesn't hit the cylinder and choose that point where the hole in the cylinder rod is. That should give you more curl than you have right now. It would be easy to do and you could try it out. If you don't like it, it doesn't hurt a thing. Move it back to the standard holes for all you other work?
That seems too easy.3RRL said:So Doug,
Did you end up getting that adapter from eBay?
If not, I'd like to suggest another alternative along the lines that Johnbud suggested.
Drill another hole towards the front of you bucket mounts to allow it to pivot back more. I have rotated your bracket to show it in the new position. It would be pretty easy to do and would work for temporary use like you are wanting. Have your bucket mounted and remove that top pin. (Be safe) Then pivot pivot it back so it doesn't hit the cylinder and choose that point where the hole in the cylinder rod is. That should give you more curl than you have right now. It would be easy to do and you could try it out. If you don't like it, it doesn't hurt a thing. Move it back to the standard holes for all you other work?
Nothing in (my) life is that easy. Kinda tired right now after 8 hours on a backhoe. I'll take a look at my tool carrier in the morning and see if your suggestion is feasible. Dougster
Hi Rob - I took a closer look at your proposal vs. the design and available room to drill another set of holes on the tool carrier. Turns out there are frame interferences on the inner sides that would limit the relocation to new holes essentially immediately adjacent to the old holes... practically touching or even overlapping. For strength reasons, the old holes would have to be welded closed.3RRL said:So Doug,
Did you end up getting that adapter from eBay?
If not, I'd like to suggest another alternative along the lines that Johnbud suggested.
Drill another hole towards the front of you bucket mounts to allow it to pivot back more. I have rotated your bracket to show it in the new position. It would be pretty easy to do and would work for temporary use like you are wanting. Have your bucket mounted and remove that top pin. (Be safe) Then pivot pivot it back so it doesn't hit the cylinder and choose that point where the hole in the cylinder rod is. That should give you more curl than you have right now. It would be easy to do and you could try it out. If you don't like it, it doesn't hurt a thing. Move it back to the standard holes for all you other work?
BTW... last Thursday, I took delivery of a CAT skidsteer "extra-heavy-duty" toothed digging bucket with a longer bottom and somewhat more tilt to the back surface where the QA mounts, effectively giving me a better rollback angle (at least on that one bucket). While the bucket is a lot heavier than I was told (which may, by itself, limit lift capacity), it does solve the immediate problem if moving materials close to ground level more efficiently.
Dougster
Dougster,
Here is a clunky solution. Measure your bucket cylinders and buy 2 new ones with 1-2" of LESS stroke. Then when you have to do a lot of bucket picking up chores, swap out to the short cylinders. The bucket won't dump as far, but will curl up more.
Hey, i said it was clunky!
jb
Here is a clunky solution. Measure your bucket cylinders and buy 2 new ones with 1-2" of LESS stroke. Then when you have to do a lot of bucket picking up chores, swap out to the short cylinders. The bucket won't dump as far, but will curl up more.
Hey, i said it was clunky!
jb
