Good points R. Load-balancing/supply adequacy..... non-trivial tasks that have to be done perfectly.
That seamless power most of us in Can/USA have experienced during our lifetime is easy to take for granted.
Rgds, D.
Quality of Electricity Supply....
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Good points R. Load-balancing/supply adequacy..... non-trivial tasks that have to be done perfectly.
That seamless power most of us in Can/USA have experienced during our lifetime is easy to take for granted.
Rgds, D.
Gale Hawkins
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Will I ever go off grid? I doubt it but if I did I am not sure I would want to sell back into the grid. I have a few bad 'jumper cables' memories. I like isolation when it comes to power. 
Actually it has been several years since our power was off more than an hour so we are stable but our house is at the end of a three phase grid which is a good thing for quality electricity supply and the first to have power. In the 2009 ice storm we were out of power for 65 hours but a half a mile down the road where the single phase grid starts was off like 2 weeks.
The place where my son moved has 3 phase along the back property line which is a plus in my view for quality of service plus one could put 3 phase in the shop if ever required. Everyone has electric clothes dryers and AC so the grid is strong. I notice loads dim the lights at church that only has a single phase power grid 1/2 mile from my house but not at our place to the same level. The gym area at church has digital lighting and they total go off for a couple seconds when the AC kicks on and it has its own meter base.
Actually it has been several years since our power was off more than an hour so we are stable but our house is at the end of a three phase grid which is a good thing for quality electricity supply and the first to have power. In the 2009 ice storm we were out of power for 65 hours but a half a mile down the road where the single phase grid starts was off like 2 weeks.
The place where my son moved has 3 phase along the back property line which is a plus in my view for quality of service plus one could put 3 phase in the shop if ever required. Everyone has electric clothes dryers and AC so the grid is strong. I notice loads dim the lights at church that only has a single phase power grid 1/2 mile from my house but not at our place to the same level. The gym area at church has digital lighting and they total go off for a couple seconds when the AC kicks on and it has its own meter base.
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Title had me thinking of California's predicament of the new norm of "Safety" shutoffs lasting for days
BoylermanCT
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CA’s blackouts are a direct result of holding PG&E accountable for $30B of damage from last years fires. From a Corporate risk vs reward perspective, if you are going to get hammered by a bankruptcy bill if a spark starts a fire, the risk is not worth it. They don’t make $30B in profit in 30 years. They would be idiots to keep delivering power during high risk weather. CA liberals screwed themselves (again).
That was a bad legal precedent, that hopefully doesn't migrate elsewhere.....
Plenty of accidents/fatalities happen with generators too, but if PG&E wants to stay solvent, they probably don't have any choice now.
Rgds, D.
tjkubota93
Veteran Member
Frequency response has been declining for several years. The more green stuff they implement, the worse it gets.
Not as much inertia in the little stuff.
Not as much inertia in the little stuff.
I appreciate how much inertia big-iron generators have :thumbsup:, but I'm curious about your frequency comment - are you referring to 60.0..... hz accuracy (here), or something else ?
Rgds, D.
tjkubota93
Veteran Member
Yeah 60hz. Say a big generator trips off somewhere. The entire electric system is interconnected. In the past, there was a enough inertia stored in the huge steam generators to make up for the loss and keep the frequency up. Now it takes a hit.
Not the same dynamic response to fast stress loads..... got it. Adding many point-source generators can possibly help overall resiliency, but the coordination task is tougher.
Some 50hz measurements a guy in the Netherlands made over time:
Accuracy and stability of the 50 Hz mains frequency
Rgds, D.
CobyRupert
Super Member
I don't think you can say it adds resiliency without more details on the "resiliency" of the sources being added.
Without getting bogged down in details, basically at any given moment, the power being generated to the grid has to match the power being consumed by the grid. There is no storage capacity on the grid.
In New York, and most of North America, a capitalistic energy market system and demand pricing (not always at the consumer level) is good in keeping this balance between suppliers and consumers.
But think about how the resiliency is effected if the market has 10,000 electric and solar suppliers that can produce electricity cheaper today than 10 large coal, gas, nukes can. So those 10 shut down. Now you have a grid being supported by 10,000 suppliers who are flicking on-line, off-line, or have variable outputs every time a cloud passes over, or gust of wind dies. This introduces instability without the base load of the traditional large coal, gas, nuke, hydro to stabilize the grid.
It also makes the energy market dependent on accurate wind and sun forecasts.