Question about hydraulics performance on different excavators.

[LD1]

I agree that the hydraulic specs is barking up the wrong tree. If you want a bigger excavator buy one that’s bigger. I also agree that a u48 isn’t really a worthy upgrade. I’d be looking at a Kx057 or for little bigger than that a Deere 60. Also a KX40 really isn’t a 4 ton machine. It’s a few hundred pounds short of the 5 ton mark. I also agree with trailering the 6 ton machine. That problem along with about a 10k price increase is why I don’t have one. You’re probably going to be disappointed looking for a mini x that can track and use the boom at the same time. But I’d go demo the Takeuchi and see if it’s better. I’ve never ran a Takeuchi mini x but the Takeuchi skid steer line hasn’t left me impressed. It wasn’t bad but I didn’t leave impressed either.

Tonnage classes on the mini's are metric tons. The KX040 is truly a 4 metric ton class machine depending on how its optioned.
3.5 metric tons falls in at 7717#. And most of the 35 class machines with canopy and rubber are right there ~7800-8000#
4 metric tons is 8820# and most 40 class machines with canopy are right at 9000#
5 metric tons is 11000#. And most 50 class machines you see fall right between 10,600-11,200#

The KX040 is 9195. Slightly larger than 4 ton....but closer to 4 ton than 45.

Some MFG's like komatsu have a 45 class machine, and they are right at 10k.

The lines (just like compact tractors) do get blurred a bit. And sizes usually jump from 27-35-50. With only a handful splitting the difference by making 40 or 45 class machines.

I was looking for a 40-45 class for along time and gave up. Settled for my bobcat 334 (3.5t). I wanted to be able to tow on either of the 12k trailers I have without having to jump to a 14k trailer. A 3.5t machine is made to be trailerable on a 10k. The 5t machines on a 14k. The 4t or 4.5t machines just dont seem to be as popular especially used.

You can option a 4t machine up to pushing the weight of a 5 ton machine with 6-way blade, cab, steel tracks, etc. All that added to a kx040 adds 1100+ lbs and pushes it to 10,360#...which is close to the base weight of a 5t machine but it is still a 4t platform at heart.

A KXo57 is a worthy upgrade from a 4t machine....but if optioned out it puts you out of comfortable trailering on a 14k trailer.



But all of that is nitpicking and splitting hairs. The fact that going from a 4t to a 5t class machine is so small that it is almost not worth it...unless a real specific task is needed. Like lifting a certain amount of weight at a given distance that the 4t is just slightly too small for. (Like landscapers using special lifting devices and setting paver patio steps or something). Or unless a specific lift height or reach is required for a certain task.

Out in the field....just digging footers, leveling pads, trenching, etc.....What machine preforms better between a 4t and a 5t will have more to do with operator skill than machine capabilities since they are so similar.

 

[LD1]

Get them each to drop a machine off for you to demo on your farm. That's the really the only way to know how what your buying will perform. I've found machines in the same weight class a zero tail won't perform a well as one with counterswing when it comes to lifting or feeling stable without the blade down.

That would be the best option so far.

Or given the cost of the machines.....find a rental place that has the machines you are looking at and rent each one for a day.

Around here an excavator this size is ~$250-$300/day.

So spending $500 on renting the two before committing to a $60,000 purchase seems like money well spent

 

[Fixastuff]

That would be the best option so far.

Or given the cost of the machines.....find a rental place that has the machines you are looking at and rent each one for a day.

Around here an excavator this size is ~$250-$300/day.

So spending $500 on renting the two before committing to a $60,000 purchase seems like money well spent

Very true, also most dealers that don't have a demo unit will credit you rental fees if you buy their machine.

 

[4570Man]

Tonnage classes on the mini's are metric tons. The KX040 is truly a 4 metric ton class machine depending on how its optioned.
3.5 metric tons falls in at 7717#. And most of the 35 class machines with canopy and rubber are right there ~7800-8000#
4 metric tons is 8820# and most 40 class machines with canopy are right at 9000#
5 metric tons is 11000#. And most 50 class machines you see fall right between 10,600-11,200#

The KX040 is 9195. Slightly larger than 4 ton....but closer to 4 ton than 45.

Some MFG's like komatsu have a 45 class machine, and they are right at 10k.

The lines (just like compact tractors) do get blurred a bit. And sizes usually jump from 27-35-50. With only a handful splitting the difference by making 40 or 45 class machines.

I was looking for a 40-45 class for along time and gave up. Settled for my bobcat 334 (3.5t). I wanted to be able to tow on either of the 12k trailers I have without having to jump to a 14k trailer. A 3.5t machine is made to be trailerable on a 10k. The 5t machines on a 14k. The 4t or 4.5t machines just dont seem to be as popular especially used.

You can option a 4t machine up to pushing the weight of a 5 ton machine with 6-way blade, cab, steel tracks, etc. All that added to a kx040 adds 1100+ lbs and pushes it to 10,360#...which is close to the base weight of a 5t machine but it is still a 4t platform at heart.

A KXo57 is a worthy upgrade from a 4t machine....but if optioned out it puts you out of comfortable trailering on a 14k trailer.



But all of that is nitpicking and splitting hairs. The fact that going from a 4t to a 5t class machine is so small that it is almost not worth it...unless a real specific task is needed. Like lifting a certain amount of weight at a given distance that the 4t is just slightly too small for. (Like landscapers using special lifting devices and setting paver patio steps or something). Or unless a specific lift height or reach is required for a certain task.

Out in the field....just digging footers, leveling pads, trenching, etc.....What machine preforms better between a 4t and a 5t will have more to do with operator skill than machine capabilities since they are so similar.

I agree that there’s hardly any difference in a 40 and a 5 ton. A 40 vs a 6 ton like a KX 57 or a Deere 60 is a pretty big difference. There’s a pretty big difference in price as well.

 

[Hersheyfarm]

Neither machine exists within 500 mile radius. They are all floating in the gulf. Dealers are flat out of all inventory and machines like mine can bring close to what it cost a year ago. So demoing is an impossibility. Any machine that shows up will be gone in 24 hours. Some dealers are out up to 8 months on estimated presales.

my current machine has angle blade/thumb so ight at about 10200. I have 14900 trailer for now, it’s a diamond c dec deck over bumper pull. I carry a extra bucket(60” I fabbed for gravel), derate to 14500 to go with my trucks 11500gvwr. I scaled the other day and my trailer axles were 13300. Total weight 24140. These machines will be a 1500# increase. I’m ok with that I just can’t pull a u55 or kx057 legally(don’t get me started). I’m staying under the 26k. I am investigating lighter trailers but it seems there is only a 600lb savings. I have a 2022 f350 11500 gvwr with a 2150 tongue rating. I get a new truck every few years(50k miles/year) and might look into the f250/ with max trailer tow package with 10k gvwr rating to move extra gvwr to trailer, currently my truck sits at 8840 with all my stuff in it. Its a crew cab long bed.

my original goal was just to get into the -5 cab. It’s a lot better in a few ways. Much better insulated and no see thru gaps in the floor. I spent a little time on a kx057-5 and liked the cab. Performance was of course great.
Then I stumbled on the Takeuchi and it’s weight vs performance. I went the other day and ran a tb260 and a tb240. Not bad, cab is no where near as nice as kubota, let alone the new -5 cab. More room, less refinement. But got to thinking about the huge flow differences. I’ve ran a yanmar and it tracks and booms just fine, vio50.
Looking at specs and type of hydraulic set ups got me curious How they increase flow with same hp and use single pumps vs multi pumps. But in the end the relief decides the strength, and flow decides ability to use that strength in multiple places at once. Would that be accurate?

so just a little background on this journey. Also, ”bigger” excavator may not be a 100%, more like the most functional with given hp and weight restrictions. I’m splitting hairs but thats fine. Its my hobby to change.

 

[Hersheyfarm]

Get them each to drop a machine off for you to demo on your farm. That's the really the only way to know how what your buying will perform. I've found machines in the same weight class a zero tail won't perform a well as one with counterswing when it comes to lifting or feeling stable without the blade down.

That would never happen. Besides the closest dealer is 70 miles away there is no used inventory and they are not going to waste a brand new machine when there is lines of people waiting. 3 years ago, maybe. 2 years from now when our inevitable recession starts, maybe.

 

[Hersheyfarm]

Tonnage classes on the mini's are metric tons. The KX040 is truly a 4 metric ton class machine depending on how its optioned.
3.5 metric tons falls in at 7717#. And most of the 35 class machines with canopy and rubber are right there ~7800-8000#
4 metric tons is 8820# and most 40 class machines with canopy are right at 9000#
5 metric tons is 11000#. And most 50 class machines you see fall right between 10,600-11,200#

The KX040 is 9195. Slightly larger than 4 ton....but closer to 4 ton than 45.

Some MFG's like komatsu have a 45 class machine, and they are right at 10k.

The lines (just like compact tractors) do get blurred a bit. And sizes usually jump from 27-35-50. With only a handful splitting the difference by making 40 or 45 class machines.

I was looking for a 40-45 class for along time and gave up. Settled for my bobcat 334 (3.5t). I wanted to be able to tow on either of the 12k trailers I have without having to jump to a 14k trailer. A 3.5t machine is made to be trailerable on a 10k. The 5t machines on a 14k. The 4t or 4.5t machines just dont seem to be as popular especially used.

You can option a 4t machine up to pushing the weight of a 5 ton machine with 6-way blade, cab, steel tracks, etc. All that added to a kx040 adds 1100+ lbs and pushes it to 10,360#...which is close to the base weight of a 5t machine but it is still a 4t platform at heart.

A KXo57 is a worthy upgrade from a 4t machine....but if optioned out it puts you out of comfortable trailering on a 14k trailer.



But all of that is nitpicking and splitting hairs. The fact that going from a 4t to a 5t class machine is so small that it is almost not worth it...unless a real specific task is needed. Like lifting a certain amount of weight at a given distance that the 4t is just slightly too small for. (Like landscapers using special lifting devices and setting paver patio steps or something). Or unless a specific lift height or reach is required for a certain task.

Out in the field....just digging footers, leveling pads, trenching, etc.....What machine preforms better between a 4t and a 5t will have more to do with operator skill than machine capabilities since they are so similar.

That’s interesting. Excavators are classed in metric tonne and in the lightest configuration. Open rops, no thumb or angle blade. Makes sense, so adding 1500lb of attachments doesn’t move one to the next class. The kx040 is 9020 in its lightest configuration rubber, and 10035 in its heaviest(this is subtracting the added operator weight). Add thumb and thats probably another 500lb.

 

[Fixastuff]

That would never happen. Besides the closest dealer is 70 miles away there is no used inventory and they are not going to waste a brand new machine when there is lines of people waiting. 3 years ago, maybe. 2 years from now when our inevitable recession starts, maybe.

I had to get "in line" for an machine last month. I let them them know if I liked it I would buy it and they brought it to my house for me to actually use. You never know till you ask. Cat, Ditch Witch, Takeuchi, Deer and Bobcat(I had to pick that one up) have all let me demo machines. The ones I didn't buy from told me to let me know when I was shopping for something else and they'd do it again. I wouldn't spend that kind of money unless I could actually check out it's capabilities in the type situation it will actually be used in. This was during the pandemic and the machines came with a tag inside saying they'd been sterilized.

 

[Hersheyfarm]

Just for curiosity sake if anyones interested my quotes on the machines

tb250 cab/angle blade/quick attach WB bucket and thumb $66495
u48-5 cab/angle blade/quick attach bucket/thumb $70056

 

[Fixastuff]

Tb260 with thumb and hydraulic pin grabber coupler, 86,000 adding an angle backfill blade took it to 89,000.

Tb370 with thumb and hydraulic pin grabber coupler, 103,000

These are both cab units tax is included in the price.