Questions on clearing land

/ Questions on clearing land #1  

rlee6

Silver Member
Joined
Jul 1, 2004
Messages
199
Location
Central Florida
Tractor
Allmand 8435 HST (TYM T330 HST)
Hurricanes are finally over (hopefully) and dry season is starting soon in Florida. I need to clear the land while it's dry and get things started. I would appreciate if someone would kindly answer my questions. All advices are welcome.

1) I need to get the parcel tied to paved road, bring in electricity, have septic tank installed, well drilled, barn built, fence installed, the whole 9 yards. Do some need to be done before others?

2) I plan to rent a dozer to clear the palmetto palms that are about waist height. (no tall trees will be felled. I have read enough horror stories here. tall trees are sporadic anyhow) It will take a few days. What would be an inexpensive temporary shelter?

3) Where do I buy off-road diesel fuel? How do I store it?

4) 20 acre fensing scares me. Is there a machine I can rent that will take care of posts, at least? Can one person do high tension fensing? It looked simple on internet. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

5) The parcel is located away from home and I cannot quite ask my friends to drive an hour to come and help me. Is there a way to hire a helper locally? Where do I find such information?

Basically, I am starting a farm on a 20+ acre parcel. I would appreciate any advice you may have. Thank you.
 
/ Questions on clearing land #2  
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( 5) The parcel is located away from home and I cannot quite ask my friends to drive an hour to come and help me. Is there a way to hire a helper locally? Where do I find such information? )</font>

The only one that I can help with. Try laborfinders (www.laborfinders.com ). They hire temps out at very reasonable rates...
 
/ Questions on clearing land #3  
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Is there a way to hire a helper locally? Where do I find such information? )</font>

Contact the local chapter of the United Way or the Salvation Army. Frequently they have lists of people who are looking for some temporary employment.
 
/ Questions on clearing land #4  
Central Florida is a big area...where in CF are you?
Dozer will work good on the palmetos. Be better to have a root rake on it or they will come right back from the roots
You should check and see if you can burn them as we have a burning ban in my county right now (mainly so they can get FEMA $$$ for removing the tress IMO)
 
/ Questions on clearing land
  • Thread Starter
#5  
Thanks for the leads for helping hands. I will check with them when ready.

I currently live in Orange but the farm is in Polk County. It will be the beginning of planned moving, I guess. I didn't know about ROOT RAKE. I will get that for sure. I didn't know about burning ban. I will have no choice but to pile them up until I get burn permit. Thanks for the info.
 
/ Questions on clearing land #6  
They may let you burn the groves are still burning their old dead trees but that all depends on where you are in Polk and a lot more on who you are. Polk still works a lot on that system. Thing is this time of year stuff may start drying out real fast and with all the rain we had the fire hazard will go up with all the new undergrowth.
 
/ Questions on clearing land #7  
The burning ban in Alabama is because the Fire Departments are spread thin and many rural roads and trails have trees across them making access very difficult. I would think Fla would be the same.
 
/ Questions on clearing land #8  
If you use laborfinders or some business like them the employees come with full insurance and taxes paid. The ones from the salvation army may not. Do you want to give your nice new farm to a guy now known as "threefingers?"
 
/ Questions on clearing land #9  
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Do you want to give your nice new farm to a guy now known as "threefingers?" )</font>

You certainly bring up a valid point that rlee6 will need to consider. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I made the suggestion as another option that could be considered. Since all we know about rlee6's situation is that he's starting to try to get a 20+ acre spread started, we might tend to think that, at least initially, he would be looking to use some inexpensive manual labor since money might be a little tight.

If rlee6 is going to be starting a legitimate farming operation, then he will need to make sure that he's in compliance with all applicable employment regulations in the state, including paying the appropriate taxes and having the proper insurance for his property and his employees.

But if all he's looking for right now is some extra hands to help get things cleaned up, then IMHO I see no problem with utilizing some of these other agencies.
 
/ Questions on clearing land #10  
The order you have the utilities installed can vary from area to area. Here we installed temporary power first because it was free and gave us electricity for the other projects. You do want to make sure that your temporary pole is located with in a reasonable distance of the primary building site without being in the way.

In my area you have to get the septic approved by the health department before a building permit will be issued. The septic does not have to be installed but the specific site for it must be approved.

Drilling a well is most likely a sure thing in Florida so it may not matter when you drill. Some places it can be iffy and it is nice to know you have water before spending too much on other things. We drilled early so there was water on site for our use.

For temporary shelter I bought an old camper that served as storage and got us out of the elements for several years. Sold it for a couple hundred less than I bought it for and not listening to the wife complaining about sleeping in the back of the van was priceless. If you build the barn before the house many have set up a small apartment for temporary use in the barn. You may not want to be too vocal to officials about living in the barn though. Some areas frown on that even temporarily.

Off road diesel is available at many of the stations that offer diesel for larger trucks. That could be a more rural thing though. Ask some local farmers, they will know. Until you are on site full time five gallon cans are going to be your best bet for storage.

Fencing is hard work! For wood post an auger on the back of a tractor or front of a skid steer will dig the holes. For metal “T” posts strong shoulders and a bottle of Advil are going to be needed. Before you decide on the type of fencing I would ask what type of animals are you going to keep in? Horses need a different type of fence than goats.

Good luck, have fun and realize it is going to take time if you don’t have deep pockets and can hire it all out.

MarkV
 
/ Questions on clearing land #11  
Mark already gave you some good advice and covered some of these, but let me add what I know from 2 counties away in Okeechobee. Many of the same rules may be operative in Polk County.

<font color="blue"> 1) I need to get the parcel tied to paved road, bring in electricity, have septic tank installed, well drilled, barn built, fence installed, the whole 9 yards. Do some need to be done before others? </font>

I did it in this order (so far): Cleared the fence line. Installed the fence. Cleared the rest of the property. Decided where my driveway would be, talked to the County road department about the culvert, and installed the culvert to their specs. Made a temporary gate in the fence with wire fencing I fold back to open. I needed lots of fill, so I had a pond dug and used the spoil to raise an area for my house, for the barn, and primarily for the driveway road (about 800').

I wanted to build a barn before I built the house, but my zoning is Rural Residential, not Agricultural, and Okeechobee won't let me build a barn until the house permit is pulled, and I'm not ready to build the house yet. Also, I cannot get a temporary electric meter until I pull the house permit.

Fortunately, my daughter lives next door, so I buried an electric feed off of their garage meter about 150' to a good place for my well, and had the well installed. I could also have installed the well anywhere and powered it with a generator, or even gone for a solar setup if I wanted to spend the bucks.

Next, I'll get the permits for the house and barn, start the house first to get the inspectors out of my hair (I have to get at least one inspection, such as the foundation, within each 6 month period), then build the barn, then get back to the house. Now that the hurricanes are over and I no longer need my old motor home in front of my Port St. Lucie house to provide power from the generator, I'm taking it over to Okeechobee to serve as my housing when I'm there.

<font color="blue"> 2) I plan to rent a dozer to clear the palmetto palms that are about waist height. (no tall trees will be felled. I have read enough horror stories here. tall trees are sporadic anyhow) It will take a few days. What would be an inexpensive temporary shelter? </font>

What do you want to shelter, yourself or the dozer? Are you planning to stay there overnight, or just want shelter from the sunshine, both the hot and the liquid kind? (rain is liquid sunshine in Florida /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif ) If the shelter is for yourself during the day and to keep things dry overnight, I'd look at the 10' x 20' canopies that are available for a reasonable price at Sam's Club or similar outlets. $150 or less, and you have a temporary shelter you can use over and over through your entire project. I have 3 of them, and have used them for everything from shelter to temporary garages to race track pit shelters.

<font color="blue"> 3) Where do I buy off-road diesel fuel? How do I store it?</font>

Check to see if there is a wholesale oil supplier near you. There should be. They will likely have tank trucks who deliver fuel to farms and ranches in your area. If they are like the oil company I use in Okeechobee (Gilbert Oil), they also have a pump station at their home base. I drive there with my fuel can(s) and have them filled at the pump with off-road diesel. At Gilbert, the only difference between off-road and on-road fuel is the color and the price, because you save the taxes on the off-road. Since you are planning to have a farm, ask them what it takes to qualify as farm use of the fuel, so you also won't have to pay sales tax. My use is not legitimately for a farm, so I pay the sales tax, even though they think I'm nuts.

You can get your fuel in 5 gallon cans, or ask the oil company what other options they have. Since I have a tractor with a FEL, I get mine in a 55 gallon drum, which I strap upright in the back of my pickup to have filled, and then lift horizontally to the top of a 5' high platform so I can gravity feed. I bought a filter, hose and inexpensive fuel nozzle from the oil company, and use ball valves and plumbing fittings to connect the hose and a vent to the drum. But, that is probably too elaborate a setup for you until you get a tractor.

If you want to spend the bucks, you can also consider a tank that fits in the back of your pickup and uses and electric pump to refuel your equipment; they have them at Tractor Supply Company. They usually hold around 50 gallons, and are handy if your equipment will someday be spread out all over your farm.

<font color="blue"> 4) 20 acre fencing scares me. Is there a machine I can rent that will take care of posts, at least? Can one person do high tension fencing? It looked simple on internet. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif </font>

That depends on the fencing. I haven't used T posts and barb wire, but Soundguy described it real well here . I used 4" mesh "hog wire" from Tractor Supply to fence 7.5 acres (around $80 for each 330' roll), because I have to keep in clever dogs as well as keep out ATV's, and my son-in-law's pit bull goes through barb wire like it isn't even there. I mounted mine on corner posts made from 6" - 7" posts and intermediate 3" - 4" posts, all round wood posts from Tractor Supply. We did it with 2 people, but it could be done with one person and a lot of patience. First, construct your braced corners. Then, put in your intermediate posts with a post hole digger -- we rented one from the local hardware store. Then, fasten your wire fence to one end, pull and stretch, and stand it up, and staple it to the intermediates. There's a little more detail about splicing and fastening and bracing, but this is already too long.

<font color="blue"> 5) The parcel is located away from home and I cannot quite ask my friends to drive an hour to come and help me. Is there a way to hire a helper locally? Where do I find such information?</font>

My son-in-law is a fireman in Okeechobee, and has odd shifts with up to 4 days off at a time. Through him, I've met several firemen who do odd jobs on their days off, and can usually find one or two who have the time. In most cases, these guys also have considerable skills in other areas -- some are good fence builders, some have worked with concrete, some have run machinery, and, being a rural area, almost all have done some farming. I don't think you can march into a local fire station and treat them like a cattle market to see who's for hire, but you might drop by, get to talking, feel them out a little, and see who would be willing to rent their expertise for a day or two at a time.
 
/ Questions on clearing land #12  
From reading the last two posts, there's really not much more to add. Those were the answers you look for on this website.

I would add that I bought two sea containers and had them delivered to my place for $3,300 wich included delivery from Dallas, which is 100 miles each way. They are very secure and can readily be reiforced even more with some brackets around the lock to make it just about impossible to get into them. Water tight and all steel. I've heard of people converting them into cabins and I turned mine into a barn.

I bought a dozer to clear my land. It's a Case 1550 with an 8 way, 12 foot blade. Weights over 40,000 pounds and has 168 hp. It's a beast. Paid $23,000 for it and when I'm done I'll sell it for a little less than that and be money way ahead.

Have fun,
Eddie
 

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/ Questions on clearing land #13  
Don, dyed fuel is designated "offroad", not farm, and is not subject to road tax. I hate to see you give the gov any more than they're entitled to. Many other occupations besides farming use it (marine, logging, mining).
 
/ Questions on clearing land #14  
<font color="blue"> Don, dyed fuel is designated "offroad", not farm, and is not subject to road tax. I hate to see you give the gov any more than they're entitled to. Many other occupations besides farming use it (marine, logging, mining). </font>

MMM, I think you might have misread something in my post, because that's pretty much what I said. I referred to it as "off-road" and "on-road", spoke to the tax savings, and only mentioned farm use as regarding sales tax, because in Florida everyone pays sales tax on the fuel even if for off-road, unless they are legitimately sales tax exempt, like a farm. It's the road taxes that are waived when the fuel is dyed to indicate off road use only. Don't worry, I don't get things like this wrong, and I don't give anyone an extra penny to which they're not entitled, except exceptional waitresses, and I think they're entitled. My CFO has turned me into Scrooge.
 
/ Questions on clearing land
  • Thread Starter
#15  
Wow, you guys gave me more tips than I expected. Thanks, folks. I feel reasonably comfortable getting into this "first time" thing.

Temporary helpers: I was thinking more or less for barn building. Thanks for bringing up the liability issue.

Fireman: I will seek possible lending of skilled help. Will be cordial.

Sea container, camper, canopy: Enough options for price comparison. More for sleeping than sheltering equipment. Thanks.

Fence: I am thinking about 6 wire high tension fence, not energized till I can get some cows. I have done some web surfing and reading, and found post drivers. I need to rent one.

Power, temporary power, septic, well, culvert: Thanks for the tips.

Pond: I will need one, too, for the same purpose.

Budget: Buying the land used up all my savings. Buying a dozer is beyond budget right now. But I will keep that path (buying and selling for a little less, like camper) as option.

PS: I saved your posts. Full of practical information. Thanks.
 
/ Questions on clearing land #16  
<font color="blue"> Fireman: I will seek possible lending of skilled help. Will be cordial. </font>
Your use of the word "lend" has me a bit worried -- these guys will expect to be paid...but I'm sure you know that, and just selected the right word to get me worried. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

<font color="blue"> Pond: I will need one, too, for the same purpose. </font>
When you're ready, ask again, and I will recommend my contractor, Wade Barnhill of Barnhill Construction and Hauling in Okeechobee. In the meantime, take a look at my gallery for some pictures. Click on Okeechobee Project, then scroll down and click on the Pond Construction sub-album. The first part deals with burying the trash, then gets into the construction of our 1/4 acre pond.
 
/ Questions on clearing land
  • Thread Starter
#17  
I have a friend who went to the fire school but changed plan at the last minute. When you mentioned firemen, I remembered he said he would need a side job. I understood what you meant. Thanks for the concern.

I browsed all the photos. It kind of lets me taste what is ahead. Thanks.

By the way, I have a question about burying vegetation. I got the impression from the captions of the pictures that it kind of served the purpose of fill dirt. Did I get it right?
 
/ Questions on clearing land #18  
I'm getting into this late, but you've received plenty of good advice so far. Talk with your county zoning and building officials, and see what kinds of permits you need. It varies from place to place.

At my daughter's place in TN, you can't get power put in without a septic tank permit. I guess they figure that's the only reason anyone would get one. But you can have power put into a barn, so that's where theirs goes, and they still have a privy.

This sort of thing is really local, so local advice is valuable. You can sometimes get good advive from the County officials too. Sometimes, they like to be good guys. <grin>
 
/ Questions on clearing land #19  
<font color="blue"> I have a question about burying vegetation. I got the impression from the captions of the pictures that it kind of served the purpose of fill dirt. Did I get it right? </font>
Well, yes and no. We dug the trench, buried the debris, compacted it as much as possible, then pulled dirt back over it. When we were done, we had dirt left over, which we used as fill where we needed it.

But, the area where we buried the vegetation didn't really need any fill, and we also built the dirt up over the trench. That's because the trench will inevitably sink as the vegetation rots and compacts further. Eventually, we may have to bring in some additional fill to keep the ground level.

We really can't use the ground where the trench is for anything else, at least not for the next ?? years until it rots down. There isn't all that much dirt over the trench, and it probably wouldn't support the root structure of any good size trees.

To minimize the impact of the settling, we made the trench fairly deep and narrow (about 12' deep; about 8' to 10' wide, over 200' long). We also kept it hundreds of feet from any potential construction. I know where the trench is, and I'll plant my new trees on either side. We're planning on several varieties of large flowering trees (this IS Florida, after all) and a number of citrus trees
 
/ Questions on clearing land #20  
You may want to check before you clear the land. I think in this area it is SWMUD you should call and see if you are even allowed to or if you need permits
 

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