Questions on log slidding, check this out.

[hdbikercouple]

just an FYI .I lost my grand father from skidding logs years ago . he did it for a living with a big track crawler. they said he was dragging a log side ways on a hill with the one end lifted . the back of the log skid sideways down hill and with the force and weight was too much it flipped the crawler over and over. so be carefull things happen. like they said keep the brain in gear.

 

[mjfox6]

Very good post xlr82v2. I was taught that when you're driving the tractor, only 1 hand on the steering wheel. The other hand is on whatever has the load (in this case, the 3pt lever). At first sign of trouble, DROP THE LOAD.

Although, as seen in the movies that were on the link that MossRoad posted, we had better get the clutch pushed in as well.

Having pulled many logs from the 3pt, I have had the front wheels "dancing" many times. Hand was always on the 3pt lever, and foot hovering over the clutch. Just engage brain, go slow and be ready to react WHEN bad stuff happens.

A huge advantage to having an HST, at the first sign of trouble your natural instinct from years of driving vehicles is to let off the gas. And when you take your foot off of the HST pedal, the tractor stops. No pushing clutches, brakes, throwing levers, cleaning your shorts, etc. I've gotten really light in the front skidding logs with a boom pole. Just added a little more weight to the bucket and away I went. I've skidded 8 foot logs so big that the bucket couldn't lift them with no problems. I think HST is really good for weekend seat seekers like myself.

 

[MossRoad]

A huge advantage to having an HST, at the first sign of trouble your natural instinct from years of driving vehicles is to let off the gas. And when you take your foot off of the HST pedal, the tractor stops. No pushing clutches, brakes, throwing levers, cleaning your shorts, etc. I've gotten really light in the front skidding logs with a boom pole. Just added a little more weight to the bucket and away I went. I've skidded 8 foot logs so big that the bucket couldn't lift them with no problems. I think HST is really good for weekend seat seekers like myself.

And there is the problem... And I've done it too, so don't take this comment as a personal attack, but here goes...

The front end starts gettings light, so do we take less of a load? Nope. We ignore the real signals to stop and take a smaller load and we add weight to the front end and take our chances. Or, we drag things from the 3pt arms instead of the swinging drawbar because it is convenient, even though we all know it is not safe. We all rationalize it with "I'll just go slow" or "I'll keep my foot on the clutch" and "I'll really think about what I'm doing", when all we really need to do is take the time to follow the safety guidlines that have been given to us so many times before. I'm just as guilty as the next guy, but really, we all have the ability to use the tools safely, we just choose not to.

 

[Harvey7]

And there is the problem... And I've done it too, so don't take this comment as a personal attack, but here goes...

The front end starts gettings light, so do we take less of a load? Nope. We ignore the real signals to stop and take a smaller load and we add weight to the front end and take our chances. Or, we drag things from the 3pt arms instead of the swinging drawbar because it is convenient, even though we all know it is not safe. We all rationalize it with "I'll just go slow" or "I'll keep my foot on the clutch" and "I'll really think about what I'm doing", when all we really need to do is take the time to follow the safety guidlines that have been given to us so many times before. I'm just as guilty as the next guy, but really, we all have the ability to use the tools safely, we just choose not to.

Well Put !!

 

[mjfox6]

And there is the problem... And I've done it too, so don't take this comment as a personal attack, but here goes...

The front end starts gettings light, so do we take less of a load? Nope. We ignore the real signals to stop and take a smaller load and we add weight to the front end and take our chances. Or, we drag things from the 3pt arms instead of the swinging drawbar because it is convenient, even though we all know it is not safe. We all rationalize it with "I'll just go slow" or "I'll keep my foot on the clutch" and "I'll really think about what I'm doing", when all we really need to do is take the time to follow the safety guidlines that have been given to us so many times before. I'm just as guilty as the next guy, but really, we all have the ability to use the tools safely, we just choose not to.

I'm not sure everyone knows this is not safe. Some people understand that when the front end comes up, something isn't right. I bet there are many out there that is just doesn't register. I don't know how detailed the Kubota owner's manual is about dragging things, I don't have it with me, but I doubt that it goes into great detail. I wasn't given any other safety guidelines when I purchased the tractor or since. Thank goodness for TBN!

I bought a boom pole because someone told me that is what I needed to skid logs and it works like a champ. It keeps the logs from getting dirty and does only minor damage to the woods. TBN has shown me tons of alternatives similar and not similar to boom poles if you have the means to fabricate them. Of course, who wouldn't love to have a Farmi winch and do it right! Sometimes you have to do the job with what you have or can afford, you just have to do it as safe as possible. In my case, an 8 foot log was already as short as I could cut it, the sawmill doesn't take anything shorter. I would have left the log in the woods to rot if I thought there was any chance of not being able to safely get it out.

It seems like dragging 1200 lbs with the 3pt arms should be no problem for a tractor that can pull a box blade full of dirt (about 2000 lbs). For comparison, the swinging drawbar is only rated to pull 2200 lbs.

 

[MossRoad]

It seems like dragging 1200 lbs with the 3pt arms should be no problem for a tractor that can pull a box blade full of dirt (about 2000 lbs). For comparison, the swinging drawbar is only rated to pull 2200 lbs.

It isn't the weight that causes the rollover. If the log gets stuck on something while you drag it, say on a stump, the log stops the tractor from going forward instantly. If the log chain is attached to the swinging drawbar, the rear wheels will tend to just spin in the dirt or stall the engine if enough traction is available. However, if the chain is attached to a point on the tractor higher than the centerline of the rear axle, say a boom pole that has a top link, the tractor will tend to lift the front end off the ground instead of spinning the rear wheels. And, if you watched those videos I linked to above, you see just how fast that front end can come up. I doubt there are many here that could stop that once it starts.

So, all I am asking is that everyone just be aware of what causes the tractor to go up and over and be careful, thinking about it as you operate, and don't get complacent. And I will be the first to admit that I do get comfortable doing tractor tasks and lose my concentration from time to time. I think everyone does from time to time. Just driving through the woods, watching the scenery, a turkey or deer walks by, the sun is shining, you hit a stump and bonk your head on the ROPS.

 

[williekioti]

It is much better to lift the business end of the log up while skidding it out of the woods for the obvious reasons. It's been my experience that when lifted either by a multi-position draw bar between 3pt lift arms or a setup like Toad's that the bottom edge of the log will easily clear anything that fits under the tractor. Usually something under the tractor (like the tie rod) will hit before a log and thus I'm not putting my tractor there to begin with.................

Dragging the leading edge of a log through the woods far tougher on the machine and me IMHO. Of course paying attention to your load, the trail and a BIG dose of common sense is always required.

 

[xlr82v2]

...And, if you watched those videos I linked to above, you see just how fast that front end can come up. I doubt there are many here that could stop that once it starts...

If you've got a reaction time better than a Three-Toed Sloth, you ought to be able to stop that front end from coming up and over.

If not, or, if you'd rather be just driving through the woods, watching the scenery, and turkey or deer walks by and the sun is shining and that distracts you long enough for you to allow your tractor to flip over with you on it, then you probably ought to stay off of a tractor and stay in the safety and security of your bedroom while momma watches over you and let someone who knows what's going on get the job done for you. Safety first, you know.

The problem with those scare tactic video clips is that the experiment WAS DESIGNED TO INTENTIONALLY FLIP THE TRACTOR. All that video shows is that if you attach a ground anchor to the center link attach point with a 3 1/2 foot length of chain, then drop the clutch and hang on for the ride, you're going to flip the tractor. THAT'S IT. Those are not real-world conditions. The geometry of what is going on in those clips is totally different than what is present when using the 3ph drawbar or a skidding attachment like was posted earlier. It's APPLES AND ORANGES.

If we really want to talk safety, then let's do it with respect to real-world situations, not some contrived silly little video clip of an experiment that is designed to intentionally flip the tractor and scare the bejezus out of anyone watching that isn't otherwise smart enough to see just what is going on there.

Oh, by the way, this thread has been determined to cause cancer in the State of California.

 

[xlr82v2]

It is much better to lift the business end of the log up while skidding it out of the woods for the obvious reasons. It's been my experience that when lifted either by a multi-position draw bar between 3pt lift arms or a setup like Toad's that the bottom edge of the log will easily clear anything that fits under the tractor. Usually something under the tractor (like the tie rod) will hit before a log and thus I'm not putting my tractor there to begin with.................

Dragging the leading edge of a log through the woods far tougher on the machine and me IMHO. Of course paying attention to your load, the trail and a BIG dose of common sense is always required.

Amen!!!

Thanks williekioti for that much-needed shot of common sense and right-headed thinking!

Hopefully the Patrol will now go easy on us outlaws... I think i'm about to unsubscribe from this thread...

 

[mjfox6]

It isn't the weight that causes the rollover. If the log gets stuck on something while you drag it, say on a stump, the log stops the tractor from going forward instantly. If the log chain is attached to the swinging drawbar, the rear wheels will tend to just spin in the dirt or stall the engine if enough traction is available. However, if the chain is attached to a point on the tractor higher than the centerline of the rear axle, say a boom pole that has a top link, the tractor will tend to lift the front end off the ground instead of spinning the rear wheels. And, if you watched those videos I linked to above, you see just how fast that front end can come up. I doubt there are many here that could stop that once it starts.

So, all I am asking is that everyone just be aware of what causes the tractor to go up and over and be careful, thinking about it as you operate, and don't get complacent. And I will be the first to admit that I do get comfortable doing tractor tasks and lose my concentration from time to time. I think everyone does from time to time. Just driving through the woods, watching the scenery, a turkey or deer walks by, the sun is shining, you hit a stump and bonk your head on the ROPS.

I also feel safer having the end in the air where it won't catch on obstructions (no stumps in the middle of my skid roads by the way) as opposed to creating a ditch through the woods, and spinning my tires every time I hit a root or rock or something. Creates a lot less damage to the woods, which is important to me since I own them.

I can't believe you think there are very few people here that could let off of an HST pedal and get the tractor to stop popping up in the front. I thought that meant that you didn't have HST until I looked at your website and found this, and I quote, "Safety: The main driving factor in my decision was safety. I wanted a hydrostatic drive. With hydrostatic, you let off the pedal and it stops..." That is the exact same thing I said in post #42. Does that mean you don't think you could let off the pedal when the front got light on your Power Trac? If not, that is scary.

But I definitely agree, no matter what task you are doing with a tractor, you'd better know the dangers (thank you TBN) and the limits of your tractor and yourself.