R1 or R4 tires? Newbie needs help....

felonius · Sep 27, 2005

I'm new to this forum and need some help choosing tires.

I am about to purchase my first tractor to clean up and maintain a piece of land I bought in Virginia. It's 40 acres about 1/2 wooded and 1/2 in pasture. I have pretty much decided on a 4WD Deere 5205 with a loader, but need to choose between R1 and R4 tires. I will be using the tractor initially for clearing out cut timber, dead wood and brush. Later on it will be used for bush hogging/mowing and general farm tasks.

The land is hilly and there are some bottom areas in the pasture that can get a bit boggy when it rains. I'd guess the R1 tires would give me more traction if it gets muddy, but may preclude me from using it to mow areas that may be seeded for lawn in the future.

Any opinions on benefits of R1 vs. R4 would be appreciated.

inveresk · Sep 28, 2005

I faced this problem when I bought my tractor recently. I have a mixed workload to undertake including woodland clearing/thinning and some fairly heavy construction work. We're also pretty hilly. Following completion of our projects here, the tractor will be on lighter, maintenance duty. After discussions with the dealer, I went with Ag. tires which are definitely right for the heavy work we've to do. However, when I traverse lawns, I really have to go easy. If I turn sharply or fast, the ag. tires can very easily tear the grass even at the current time when it's hard packed due to no rain for three months. When the wet weather comes and the ground softens, I imagine the problem will be worse. Tearing the grass might also be aggravated by the fact that I have a FEL and backhoe fitted, giving a total weight of over 6000lbs for tractor and implements.. When the heavy work is done and I'm mostly on 3ph work, maybe the problem won't be so bad. Difficulty is I don't think we could have carried out the heavy work we need to do with industrial tires. Maybe by the time we've finished our heavy work in 2 - 3 years, the tractor will need to be reshod and we can change to R4's. Until then, I guess I've just got to learn to tiptoe around the landscaped areas.

BB_TX · Sep 28, 2005

I think for your primary uses, the R1 are the better choice. The 5205 is a bit much for general lawn mowing. The 5205 for the heavy work and a lawn tractor for the lawn would be best.

Dk45_Jeff · Sep 28, 2005

I agree with the previous posters. I don't know where you are in VA, but if you have the same red clay as in Spotsylvania the R1s are the better choice. But if I so much as roll across the lawn after a morning dew the machine leaves deep tread imprints.

LBrown59 · Sep 28, 2005

( If I so much as roll across the lawn after a morning dew the machine leaves deep tread imprints. )

How big and how hevey is the machine ?

I don't see this as a problem with the lighter compacts and sub compacts.

jjcc246 · Sep 28, 2005

I have had both. The r1's when I was in the woods did a great job, but when I went on the lawn they tore it up. I now have r4's and with the 4x4 I have no problems in the muck (use the fel to help push youself out if your stuck) and no tearing on the lawn when I brush hog. The other thing that helps the lawn is take it out of 4 wheel drive and the front tires won't did in when you turn. Hope it helps.

felonius · Sep 28, 2005

Thanks for the input. We do have red clay soil here, so I'll probably go with the R1's.

Does anyone know about what it would cost to buy a set of R4's if I want to switch? Would I also have to replace the wheels/rims due to a different tire profile if I wanted to switch from R1 to R4?

Todd_C · Sep 28, 2005

I live in Southwest VA and I went with the R4 tires. I have heavy wooded areas and a good size lawn. I went with the R4 because of the ply rating for my size tractor (6ply vs 4ply). I also have chains for my tractor which helps. I can say that the industrial tires work fine for most duties; however, I have found they don't work well in loose wet clay. I got stuck not long ago and used the FEL to get unstuck. In most cases R4 tires cost more than Ag tires. You can always purchase chains if you want R4s.

DrewL · Sep 29, 2005

R4's............you won't be disappointed

Dk45_Jeff · Sep 29, 2005

LBrown59,

 How big and how hevey is the machine ? 

6000+ with FEL, BH and loaded tires. I agree its a weight issue, but the 5205 felonius mentioned is in the same weight class.

felonius · Sep 29, 2005

( LBrown59,

 How big and how hevey is the machine ? 

6000+ with FEL, BH and loaded tires. I agree its a weight issue, but the 5205 felonius mentioned is in the same weight class. )

What do you mean when you say "you agree it's a weight issue"?

felonius · Sep 29, 2005

OK so now I'm not so sure! Unless there is a lot of rain, the clay soil in my area stays pretty hard packed. My only worry is the bottom part of the pasture.

Also, I will be selectively clearing smaller trees and dead wood out of a fairly mature stand of hardwoods. I would like to do as little damage as possible to the larger trees. Will the R4's significantly reduce the chance of damaging the root structure of these trees as I negotiate my way around them to clear out the dead/dying stuff? I am new to this, and don't have any idea how much damage a 6000lb tractor would do to larger trees in terms of soil compaction.

My other challenge will be to drag/carry this stuff down a medium grade hill to the field for burning. This steeper ground is under mature trees so there is little to no vegetation on the forest floor. It seems fairly well packed, but perhaps could get a bit slippery.

Dk45_Jeff · Sep 29, 2005

What do you mean when you say "you agree it's a weight issue"? 

Just that the heavier a machine will disturb the ground more then a lighter machine with a similar tire type. I use AG style tires on my garden tractor and it can travel across the lawn without damage. It all comes down to ground pressure which is determined by how much of tire surface is in ground contact and the machine’s weight.

We tend to think of this in static terms, measure the tire PSI at rest and that’s the ground pressure. But this ignores tires don’t have a uniform surface shape. The surface area of a rolling tire in contact with the ground varies instant to instant during the revolution. A slick tread tire has essentially the same amount of tire surface in contact during the revolution. As the tire tread becomes more radical the greater variation in surface area during its revolution. This lets the tire “dig in” and creates more traction with aggressive treads.

In your last post you were asking about possible damage to tree roots from soil compaction. Neither tire style will be an issue with trees; below the first couple of inches from the surface they will cause an equal amount of compaction. As the various posters have said, R1 provide more traction while R4 cause less surface disturbance. R4 usually have thicker sidewalls making them be more puncture resistant. Either will work for you, the differences are merely a matter of degree. But for the tractor and the uses you described R1, in my opinion, is the better choice.

Unless there is a lot of rain, the clay soil in my area stays pretty hard packed 
Late winter and early spring, in this area, are often the worst time for wet soil conditions. Usually there are several weeks when the ground is thawing on the surface but still hard underneath.

Dartagnan · Sep 30, 2005

I have NH TC30 with r4s, loaded rears and woods fel. It leaves "prints" on the lawn unless drought conditions. So I don't use it to finish mow, craftsman takes care of that. (for the price of a finish mower, and more manuverable to boot)

That said, I do have some clay content and have encountered some traction issues, usually having something to do with bigger tap roots than I thought were going to be there, or it's so wet I shouldn't have been out to begin with /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

And yes, I would get the R4's again, if they're leaving tracks I imagine the ags would have just plain tore it up. And I might be (Might) 3k with the hog on.

Dart

OrangeAlex · Oct 1, 2005

I was in the same boat. In the end the decision for me was obvious. I have about 20 acres of woods to manage with the same tasks as you list. I decided that I did not want to end up with a lot of lawn area to maintain. 1 to 1.5 acres was enough lawn for me. the more lawn the more time and more you have to spend. Lawn is expensive (water, chemicals, mowing, etc). I bought the heavy expensive tractor to give me max performance in the woods. Lowering my capabilites out in the woods just so I could manage the lawn was silly. It was best in my case to have a seperate solution for the lawn. Just how much lawn do you have or expect to have?

As for buying a seperate set of R4 tires and rim just for the lawn. I didn't think that was very time or cost effective. The tires, rims and finish mower would have cost me as much or more then a seperate standalone mower. Not to mention the hassle or messing around with jacks and getting loaded rear wheels on and off the machine.

btw, do you already own this machine?

John_Mc · Oct 2, 2005

( I will be selectively clearing smaller trees and dead wood out of a fairly mature stand of hardwoods. I would like to do as little damage as possible to the larger trees. Will the R4's significantly reduce the chance of damaging the root structure of these trees as I negotiate my way around them to clear out the dead/dying stuff?)

Soil compaction and shearing of the fine root structures (typically the fine hair-like roots are not very deep) can be a significant issue for the long-term health of your forest if you are in there on a regular basis. R4 tires would have a slight advantage here because they spread the load out over more area, but the difference between the two is not nearly as important as when you go into the forest. The best time is to go in only when the ground is frozen. If that's not an option in your area, then go when the soil conditions are as dry as possible.

Another thing you might consider is a logging winch (Farmi and Fransgard make some good ones). This will let you pull out trees a good way from your access roads and trails without bringing the tractor right up to the tree.

John Mc

LBrown59 · Oct 25, 2005

( I think for your primary uses, the R1 are the better choice.
1*The 5205 is a bit much for general lawn mowing.
2*The 5205 for the heavy work and a lawn tractor for the lawn would be best. )
]]]]]
~~~~~~~~~
1*Me thinks it would be hard on a lawn regardless of which type of tires it had on it.
2*Makes more sense than wasting more money on other tires that still might not work because the tractor is to big and heavy for lawn work.

Seems to me like sometimes folks get so hung up on tires when the real issue may be one of weight and size.