R4 vs Bar Turf

[MattEffinCameron]

Looking at a used B series tractor...the guy selling it has both bar turf and R4 tires he could sell it with. I really wanted turf since my primary focuses will be mowing and snow removal...but thats not an option at the moment, its a great deal, and im not able (or very interested in) shelling out ~850 for a set of turfs at the moment.

So im wondering what people recommend.

How are bar turfs in snow?

Based on my reading/research, the issue when mowing is the camber on the front of a 2x20...where the wheels are angled inward: \ -- / ...this puts the corner of the wheel right into the ground and on a tire like the R4 with those big lugs obviously damages the turf. The Bar turf, have a weird tread on the back (cant quite tell what I should expect that tread to excel at doing) with a tread on the front tires that is only slightly rougher than regular turf tires. To me this means the bar turfs might be almost as good as the turfs on the lawn and will be much better than the R4s.

And if I got the tractor and decided to put an ad on craigslist to trade someone my wheels for theirs....what do you think would be more marketable? I am guessing the R4s?

 

[varmint]

Turfs, especially the bar turfs, are great in snow. The toe-in is easily adjustable, but I have no idea how that would affect steering or tire wear on a tractor.

 

[Threepoint]

Could you find a pic online of the "bar turfs" you're describing and post it? Also, which B model are you talking about, as wheel size has varied over the years and models, and I think that makes a difference. I've had turfs on my B 2150HST for 21 years (Kubota OEM still on the rear, and newer Carlisles on the front). They are outstanding on grass, snow and rough ice.

 

[pmsmechanic]

Just want to see where this goes.

 

[aczlan]

Could you find a pic online of the "bar turfs" you're describing and post it?

They are probably what Deere calls HDAP, the RTVs with the same tread call it the worksite tread.
Carlisle calls it All Trail II or HD Field Trax (Carlisle Transportation Products or Carlisle Transportation Products).

Aaron Z

 

[dfran1]

I think he is referring to one of these
this came off the BX brochure.

 

[MattEffinCameron]

I think he is referring to one of these
this came off the BX brochure.


View attachment 416543

Those are actually (based on my understanding) R4 Industrial, Turf, and R1 Ag tires (from left to right)

The "Bar Turf" I am referring to is the same tires I have seen on this site when others have discussed bar turf so I am inclined to think it is a proper example of bar turf...here are pics below. Weird pattern on the rear with a zigzag tread down the middle, and perhaps most importantly for better behavior when mowing a lawn, a much less aggressive tread for the fronts..it is a bit more aggressive than the turf but much less so compared to the R4.

Definitely interested in Varmint responding to confirm these are what he was thinking of when he said they are great in snow?

 

[varmint]

I was thinking of the center photo tires, "turf tires" which is more or less what I had on my B8200 and now on my L3400. Like threepoint said, great for grass, snow and rough ice. Your front tires are similar to my present turfs, front and rear. Not that it would help, but I can add a photo- sorry it isn't more clear on the tread. The photo of the chained tire is from the old B8200. I find I need chains when the packed snow turns into ice, especially partially melted, wet ice.

 

[ENC]

Anyway you could get him to include both sets to close the deal? May be the best of both worlds being able to swap tires.

 

[RoyJackson]

I had bar turfs on my first tractor, a Deere 670. They did OK for most tasks. I don't think they were as good as regular turf tires for snow plowing. Bar turfs are less aggressive then R-4 industrials, so less likely to tear up a lawn.
If the main task is mowing, then go for the bar turfs. But try not to use MFWD when mowing...any tire is going to tear up the lawn if in 4WD.
BTW, with snow clearing, you'll want weight on the 3PH (unless you're going to use a 3PH snow blower). Any tractor will lose traction if there's not enough weight on the back for tires to get a good bite.

 

[RaydaKub]

View attachment 416592View attachment 416593

Wow, traction aplenty. They even hang on upside down!

 

[rScotty]

I had turfs on both my 16 and 33 hp tractors for 30+ years. Turfs give a nicer ride in the summer because they are soft, low pressure tires - and turfs have noticibly more sidehill stability. Turf tires do take a special wide rim to mount them on and those rims are costly as are the turf tires themselves.....but I think they are worth the money for the stability if nothing else. Our soil here is sand and rocks, so in the summertime the turfs can give traction as good or better than other tires. On rocks, the summertime trick for traction is friction rather than cleats.

Have you thought about flats? Most tractor tires are tubeless, but R4 and Ags can be hard to repair at home if they get a nail. Fixing those heavier tires often requires dismounting them from the rim. Turf tires are so soft you can repair them yourself right on the tractor with a tubeless gummy strip kit from the local auto store. Takes maybe five minutes and you're done.

My experience is that turfs certainly don't do as well as R4s or Ag tires in the snow. R4s and a heavy machine are best for snow, and everything works poorly on ice. But on a lightweight tractor you are going to be running chains in the winter anyway so the traction of the bare tire doesn't matter much. Chains do better on turfs than on bar tires because there's no space for the chain to fall between the bars.

Ags and R4s will tear up a lawn much faster than turfs, but some turfs are nearly as bad. THat's because it's the edge of the front tires that tear up grass and sod when turning. So the trick with turfs and smooth lawns is to make sure that your front turf tires are the kind with a rounded profile. Take a look at some in photos. The profile of front turf tires is very different among different makes. The ones you want have a very rounded edge; in fact they might not even have a discernable edge at all. Sort of balloon fronts. If they aren't that kind, try them on your lawn. If they work, good. If not, you already have the rims and it's not too badly expensive to buy nice round profile front turf tires. It's not like buying rear turf tires - that can be shockingly expensive.
enjoy!
rScotty

 

[MattEffinCameron]

thanks for all the info in your posts guys

Wound up going with bar turf...it really came down to believing that the big lugs on the corners of the R4 tires would dig in (especially the front tires) when cornering on the lawn for lawn mowing...as I mentioned in the original post, turfs were not an option, only bar turf or R4 so I took the lesser of 2 evils.

I guess only time will tell how those rear tires in the bar turf setup behave on the lawn...or in the snow...or the dirt

had not thought about flats to answer your question scotty...not sure if the bar turfs are on wider wheels or not?

 

[Threepoint]

Congratulations on the tractor!

 

[LLS]

Matt, I had bar-turf like you pictured and they did great in snow, with 380# of weight on the 3pt and an all steel Sims cab I had no problem with a 60" plow with wings om my B2320. The fronts will tear up the grass if you turn hard and fast but you can just back up and do a kind of 3 point turn to go around trees.

 

[LLS]

Also they do good in dirt and don't hurt grass and they are wider than r4's.